hlee12

i'm not saying that's what commercial should look like. i'm just showing you who the target is.
55-65 year old wealthy folks who prefer comfort over sport. same old luxurious LS exists, but it just doesn't feel or look the same. it's like diane lane wanting to look younger, so she decides to do a plastic surgery but she no longer looks like herself anymore. different and younger for sure, but not the same. it's a turn off to many.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Great point about the LX. I do think the 5LS will likely retain the 'flagship' crown but the LX has much potential. Especially if Lexus can spin the LX off as it's own and not as a based on the LC. A great vehicle, but if Lexus is looking for a Range Rover competitor a new lighter unibody chassis would be ideal.

spwolf

LX will not go unibody for sure - its main markets are those that require tough truck and body on frame and where RR sells like crap. That does not mean that they cant try to make it handle better on the road though, and give it more engine options, f-sport edition, interior options, equipment choices, etc, etc.

swajames

The LFA defines what Lexus can do, but the LS defines what Lexus is.

I agree the current car isn't as competitive as it once was, but it's still a fine car and still a good choice in the segment.

The next LS really ought to come sooner, though. The latest S Class is absolutely dominating the segment and by the time the new LS hits the market we'll be getting close to a refresh on the S.

mmarshall

That's where I disagree with some people. I've seen people in their 30s (some even that I've worked with) buy the LS and Q45....though I agree that Infiniti had trouble selling that car, period, regardless of age. In fact, domestic (American) luxury cars were so poorly built, when I was in my 30s, that I wish Lexus had been around at that time. The big Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7-series were built like tanks back then, while Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Chryslers/Imperials, in comparison, were unreliable, flimsy, and used cheap materials.

SW17LS

I do think that Lexus is loosing sales because the LS is so old at this point, but they obviously made the choice to focus on other segments of the market and refresh the LS so it could "get by" until such a time as their plate is less full and they can focus on it appropriately.

Lexus VP isn't worried because they knew that this would happen. Nobody is surprised.

I do also think their marketing approach is all wrong for the LS. I personally may be in the market for an LS when my GS lease is up in 1.5 years. I'll be nearly 35. I however am an anomaly that I would A: Want such a car, and B: Be capable of affording such a car. To target me in advertisements is a mistake.

I think they should look at S Class ads, they need to be more subtle, feature people approximately 50. 60 year old businessmen don't need to or want to think of themselves as a 30 year old who hasn't shaved going into a club...

I want to point this out because to me this illustrates the double standard we're talking about here.

Your opinion is that obviously the LS is less of a car compared to its competitors because sales are down on the LS compared to its competitors. Yet...your Dad's XJL is on "another level"...yet the LS still outsells it by nearly 2 to 1 despite LS sales being down. So where is the conversation about why the XJ is such a poor vehicle?

That is not a logical viewpoint, thats a biased viewpoint.

Sales are not the be all, end all. The LS is selling quite well despite its age IMHO, and I'm sure the all new LS will be incredible. Lexus is doing a great job of rebuilding its lineup from the ground up.

dmvp29

Pretty much every LS460 owner I know is a cash buyer who drives his or her car into the ground. It's only been 7 years since the first MY LS460 (2007). That's nothing. Financially prudent cash buyers drive their cars for 12-15+ years, reliability permitting.

My dad bought my mom an LS460 back in 2007 and it has something like 45,000 miles on it. That's nothing. It could be another 10-15 years (17-22 years of total ownership) before my dad replaces that car. IIRC he wrote a $65,000 check for it so if they do keep it for, say, 20 years, that'll bring the effective monthly cost of ownership down to something respectable (like $300 and change per month), including loss of potential capital gains by purchasing outright.

The point is, I wonder how many LS buyers are really going over to Mercedes or Tesla. A lot of Lexus owners are still getting quality, low-maintenance mileage out of their current LS460s/LS600s.

SW17LS

We have the stats though. All you have to do is search for CPO 3 year old LS's and you will see that a lot of these cars ARE leased. This sales dropoff is not for the reason you describe, your assumption is quite flawed. For one not everybody bought into the LS in 2007. Where has this phenomenon been during the sales history of the LS?

Its because the car is old. If you look back at the sales performance of any vehicle, the highest years are all new years. Then it falls. Pops back up at a refresh and falls steeper. The issue is that the 2013 LS should have been an all new car according to the schedule by which they've updated it in the past. Instead its a twice refreshed car. Of course sales will suffer.

dmvp29

Are they? I don't know. Admittedly I'm only going by anecdotal "evidence." I'll take your word for it then.

SW17LS

I've watched the sales history of this car and other cars in that class for 15 years...the issue here is the car is old and when compared to the competition, it shows.

I wouldn't count the Tesla as competition. As a car...it kind of sucks (interior is awful), there's a "hipness" to it that is exaggerating sales. I don't see people abandoning the LS for a Tesla. I wouldn't trade my GS for one.

BUT, the new S Class is incredible, and it shows that in this "dying segment" if you make a great car...people can and will pay. They have terrible leases too and they are STILL doing that volume. Best MB money factor is like 6% interest. Terrible residuals. Leases $1,600-$2k a month...still selling like hotcakes.

I also see a fair number of LS buyers trading down to the GS, or going to a 5 Series, etc. Its pretty common in the GS forum, the LS has gotten so big, the GS is about the same size as the 1LS and 2LS, and the 5 Series has grown and gotten more comfortable.

spwolf

its pretty funny too, as LS still sells better than anything sans S class :-)

I hope they offer more powertrains worldwide... LS350, LS450h, LS460, LS600h are minimum for worldwide.

jwong77

That's a good point, but I would argue that there is room for two flagships, the relationship between the LS and LX should be the same as the S Class and G-Wagon.

Lots of heritage in the LX (Land Cruiser) and the G-Wagon.

RXSF

I wasn't really referring to heritage. I was saying that when the young try something like the IS, they are more likely to stay within the same brand when they are looking to move more upmarket. They like the brand, learn to trust the brand, and enjoy what the brand has to offer.

Toys4RJill

I think the new generation who are trying the IS and A4s will switch brands quicker than those from the past. Trends and what is cool and in style does tend to draw in shoppers.

Vladi

Oh yeah! LX is the best full sized SUV on the planet, period. Don't try to sell me that Range Rover crap.

One thing LX needs is modern hybrid powertrain and hopefully that is coming with the redesign. From what we've seen they are coming out with the diesel as well, finally! I mean it's always been there and I don't know why they didn't use it since day one. Come to think of it, LX has the best designed vertical pillar dashboard of the old Lexus cars. Its till a beauty.

Back to LS, when did it loose parallel self parking feature? Right after first minor facelift right? Or before that?