MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

For one, the CT has been around since 2011, so while it has been refreshed, it's definitely getting older. Two, it's only available as a five door hatchback, which has never been a particularly popular configuration here in the states. Three, it's only sold as a hybrid, which some people like and some people don't.

A3 is brand new, offers more engine options and is sold in a more American-friendly sedan bodystyle for now.

spwolf

CT is a great seller and success for the brand...

It is a 5 door hatchback though, and not 4 door sedan like new A3, basically a different class of vehicles.

LexFather

I just died laughing.. Acura and Audi are seen as equals?!! Yeah so is wal-mart and saks...

RNM GS3

Audi doesnt have the dealer network of MB BMW and Lexus in the US.
As far as im aware, no factories are here either.

BMW is manufacturing all SUVs in SC.
MB does it in Alabama.
Lexus builds RX in Canada.
Audi doesnt have the infrastructure yet to go for that type of volume in US.

If u consider worldwide #s they are up there with MB and BMW.
Lexus is much smaller bec its still relatively new company at the global level. They need to develop in China, that will be important for the long term viability.

Trexus

That's correct regarding Lexus worldwide. I believe Mark Templin is working real hard to expand Lexus worldwide. Other models sold worldwide but not in the U.S.

HS 250h
IS 300h
ES 250
GS 300h
LS 600h (U.S. gets LS 600h L)
RX 270
GX 400
LX 450d

I wish Lexus would bring the IS 300h to the U.S.

Lex2InfiN

Acura has routinely outsold Audi in the US since umm, forever. Only this past year has Audi finally surpassed Acura in sales and only barely. Let's not try to re-write history and pretend Audi has always had a strong presence in the US. They haven't. Kudos to them for finally turning it around and gaining some traction here, but they were pretty much always below Acura, Cadillac, & Infiniti (and way below MB, BMW, & Lexus) in sales here and only recently has surpassed two of them. So yea, I would say that their brand perception here is about equal to Acura at this point. Once the TLX hits dealerships, I think Acura will overtake Audi once again in sales, if only slightly.

TangoRed

Brand perception and sales are not directly related...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

sales volume has almost nothing to do with 'brand perception'.

if in the past gm sold 1000 azteks in a year and rolls royce sold 1000 phantoms in a year, would that make them equal in brand perception? i think not.

audi offers a wide range of coupes, sedans, sports cars, and suvs - a much bigger offering than acura.

while a base a4 might be somewhat like a tsx perhaps, acura has nothing like an r8 or an a7 or s5.

so not sure there's any point in comparing acura and audi in terms of brands. comparing sales volumes doesn't mean much but you're free to do so of course.

acura, imo, is not a luxury brand. it's a 'premium' brand kind of like buick and lincoln. lincoln is trying to step it up but they've got a long way to go.

Lex2InfiN

I'm not referring to enthusiasts' brand perception of the two brands, I'm referring to the general car buying public. It is pretty obvious that the American buying public has always preferred Acura over Audi since Acura's inception. The sales numbers don't lie. Audi for years had a downright awful reputation in the US. A lot of that had to do with years of unreliable products throughout the 80s and 90s. Audi was never even close to being considered on the same level as MB, BMW, Lexus, or yes, even Acura. In fact I would go as far as to say that they were almost a niche brand here in the states for years. They have only recently turned things around for themselves and only in the past year have finally started to outsell Acura.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Audi and Acura have always offered entry level and mid-level product. You know, the product that actually sells in any kind of real numbers.

That's nice for them, except only a small fraction of luxury car buyers care and are actually buying those models.

I never suggested that they did. I'm suggesting that the American car buying public has always preferred Acura over Audi when both brands have always offered similar priced models. In fact your argument proves my point even more, considering the fact that Audi has always offered more options than Acura in every pricing segment, yet has still failed to overtake Acura in sales. What does that tell you? If people felt highly about Audi in the past 25 years, they would have been buying Audis over Acuras and the majority have not. So yes, sales numbers do have a lot to do with brand perception when we're comparing directly competing products.

It actually means a lot. It means that people have preferred TLs over A4s since... always. Although again recently, Audi has finally turned things around, so obviously some perceptions about the brand are changing.

I agree with you. However, they still move a lot of vehicles in the luxury price bracket and have always been generally successful doing so. People around here seem to not give them enough credit for their success, but the fact of the matter is, they offer highly reliable vehicles that do everything well. No, they're not vehicles for the enthusiast, but neither are the Lexus ES & RX, but without those two models, Lexus sales would be reduced by 70%.

LexFather

I do not understand anyone that mentions the really ridiculous argument "oh take the EX/RX out and sales are down huge" when its like that for EVERY brand. Every brand has volume cars. It is a terrible, just terrible point.

There is no one on planet Earth that sees Acura and Audi as equals, not even Honda employees.

Unbelievable.

mmarshall

For years, the TL outsold the A4 mainly on the issue of reliability and build-quality (Acura's 6/70 drivetrain warranty is also substantially longer than Audi's 4/50). But, of course, several things have been working recently to start allowing the A4 to catch up. One, of course, is the TL's current controversial body-styling and parrot-beaks. Two is Audi's own increasing build/quality and reliability. And three, with the A4 particularly, is the growing disillusionment of former BMW owner with the new 3-Series. All all three together, and it is significantly increasing A4 sales.

S2000toIS350

I stumbled across some hybrid specific sales data

http://www.hybridcars.com/june-2014-dashboard/

Here are some numbers for the RWD based hybrid cars

Q50 242
5 series 18
GS 15
3 series 13
E class 13
Infiniti M 11
7 Series 6
LS 5

Not much action in these models in general but at least the Q50 hybrid moves in a volume that would be supportable when a company looks at product mix.

hlee12

early 90's when acura had legend & nsx? yeah. i would buy that. audi wasn't that cool back in the days. but now? pass me that joint.

Lex2InfiN

Wow, so the Q50 is pretty much the only RWD luxury hybrid that is selling. They've been pushing it a lot and it does seems like there's quite a few of them out there.

I can't help but wonder though, would a 2014 Lexus GS460 be selling under 15 units per month if it were available? Doubt it. So much for the GS450h replacing the V8 in the GS line. Bad move by Lexus in my opinion. The same goes for Infiniti if and when the 5.6L V8 Q70 goes bye bye

S2000toIS350

I seem to recall that the last gen GS V8 was a special order car as it was not a big seller

I think the things the Q has in its favor are pricing and the available AWD.

It looks like Lexus will be adding AWD to the GS450h but it will still be a $70k car