spwolf

Toyota and Lexus certainly give out quite sizable discounts... but they are still one or two levels off what Germans and US companies do... Only Honda and Koreans are on the par with Toyota in size of the discounts, everyone else is way, way above.

LexFather

That was one of the worst synopsis I've ever seen about anything. It read like some internet troll. Was that really in Motor Trend or in the comments section? What a complete fail.

Lex2InfiN

For perspective:

Equus: 250 (starts at 61k)
RLX: 229 (starts at 48k)
K900: 224 (starts at 59k)

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Hyundai > Acura at this point.

Toys4RJill

Yes I agree, everyone has their own opinion.

For the most part, Lexus is tier 1 and as a brand they are tier 1 for sure.

However, I do think Lexus has some models that crossover to Tier 2 or even Tier 3 status.

The LS, IS, GS, and LX are all tier one models. The ES, RX, are tier 2 while the CT is tier 3. That is the way I view it.

Cadillac is now tier 1 in my opinion. The ATS, CTS and Escalade are all full fledged tier 1 models. The XTS is tier 2.

Trexus

Year to date 2014 (January - June):

BMW 181,534
Merc 151,624
Lexus 138,689
Audi 106,176

When the NX and RC come out by the end of the year Lexus should be able to hit 296,500 units by the end of 2014...we'll have to wait and see what happens...as for BMW and Mercedes they should each hit over 300K units...

GS69

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

If you double Lexus' current numbers at the half way mark, that puts them a hair over 277k units for 2014. It's sounding like RC will come online in September/October, and NX in November. I am not sure if that's enough time for either of those two models to muster 20k in sales, but certainly for next year, the NX should add a healthy volume to sales.

I think Lexus is done leading the sales race for the foreseeable future. BMW and Mercedes quite simply have too many models and they're expanding into segments where Lexus will not venture - CLA, GLA, X4, X6, 1 Series, 2 Series, etc. Obviously, based on price, many of those are volume segments (especially Mercedes) as well.

Looking into 2015:
- LS will be another year older, so I expect fewer sales
- GS will be refreshed, and depending on that, I think it could add another 400 - 500 sales per month consistently
- ES will be another year older, refresh in 2016?
- IS will hopefully still be going strong, but another year older and no 200t until September '15
- CT will be at the end of it's life cycle
- RC will be red hot and brand new, though probably somewhat low volume
- NX will be white-hot, I'm sure of it
- RX will probably be impacted a bit by NX sales until the new model arrives later in the year
- GX... the "newness" of the refresh will probably wear off a bit and I expect numbers to drop slightly
- LX - as low volume as it already is - will be another year older

Considering all of that, I expect Lexus to finish somewhere close to 340,000 units in 2015, but Mercedes and BMW may be chasing 400k at that point.

swajames

There's no question that MB and (particularly) BMW are driving sales through subsidized leasing and incentives. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to understand why Audi and Lexus sell fewer cars in the US it's all down to their relative lack of incentives, subsidies and marketing dollars compared to MB/BMW. I personally think that it's cheaper leases rather than any product issues per se that are limiting other premium brands from delivering the volumes of the big two.

spwolf

it does not work that way... Audi sells less because they are still growing... they are having record sales right now. They were never a big brand and you cant tripple your sales overnight... they might reach competition in 3-4-5 years from now in the USA, if everything continues to go perfectly for them.

Lexus sells less right now because they were down after recalls and floods PLUS they have much less models these days. Even after NX and RC are released, Lexus will still have less models than all 3. Lots of growth for Audi, BMW and MB came from lower end models, cars like CLA and X1 and A3 Sedans, cars that Lexus wont have at least for next 2 years.

We know of NX and RC, plus upcoming TX and possibly SC (as well as F models)... but that still leaves CT sedan and CT SUV that all of the germans are pushing right now.... thats significant yearly volume.

spwolf

well your argument is changing all the time... sales matter a lot.

When I talked about Japanese Toyota being #1 in the world, it has to do with:
1. Sales (#1 - biggest car company in the world)
2. Profits (#1 - by far the largest profits of them all)
3. Brand perception (#1 - rated #1 brand in the world for years now)

So no, people dont see Germans car makers as superior to Japanese.

I live in Europe... Just because people dont know about Lexus, especially in Germany where they buy (mostly) only German vehicles, doesnt mean that they equate it with PSA. It has a lot to do with sales, as people dont know much about cars since they dont sell much.

S2000toIS350

I am kind of surprised at what we are seeing with the 2 lowest priced MB cars, the CLA and the C.

When the CLA came out, I recall the numbers were much stronger.

This month the C is outselling the CLA by better than 3:1 (5607 vs. 1658).

My guess is the base 4 banger in the CLA is somewhat to blame. Any other thoughts here, perhaps the RWD vs. FWD thing?

I also concede that Infiniti is stinking up the joint.

Regarding the prospects for Lexus, I like to look for signs. My local dealer is building a new shop that appears to be double in size of his cuuent one and other regions have been sharing pics of mega Lexus stores opening or in the planning stages.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

a lot of people i know say the cla is "weak" so maybe something to do with the 4 banger.

spwolf

they cant produce enough CLA's right now, not many at the dealers... so no dealing... while for C class they have huge stocks of highly discounted outgoing model.

You can check cars.com for inventory situations (rough) - 760 CLAs vs 12000 C classes.

hlee12

not sure why you are bringing up toyota because we are talking about luxury tier, not mainstream tier. and what is the main reason why lexus isn't selling much in europe?

and sales & profit aren't that important to me. i'm sure most people think walmart is crap but they are #1 in sales and profits by a gigantic margin. and bulk of sales from mb/bmw/audi/lexus are from entry level luxury models. and if the sales/profits 1 & 2, then Jaguar/land rover would finish lower than acura. and IMO, the flagship argument is huge. S class is the king. it represents 'rich'.

and i completely forgot about porsche, and i think porsche is a tier above MB. but we all know porsche don't have enough lineups and too expensive to be a sales leader.

IMO luxury tier should always be about brand perception.

again my criteria is only about perception. 'rich' is the keyword. i try to think simply. I made it out there and made a lot money. i gotta big house too. and i don't worry about repair costs because i'm loaded. what car would i want to buy among mainstream luxury brands to show off that i'm loaded? S class.