geko29

The Leaf sold 3,117 units in May. For a niche that small, those are pretty amazing numbers. For reference, it has sold 35% better than the plug-in Prius thus far in 2014, and 52% better than the Volt.

Along those lines, Tesla's moving of 5,600 units through May, of a vehicle that "costs 5 times more" is downright astonishing.

spwolf

I would say Tesla is certainly the world's coolest automaker, but important? They are barely a blip on the radar.

Also, most important part of their cars - batteries, are actually made by 3rd party supplier who is going to sell them to anyone who wants to buy them.

LeX2K

The majority of parts in a Toyota for example are made by suppliers that will make and sell parts to anyone who wants to buy them.

swajames

The Model X and Model E will use the same infrastructure. Tesla ought to be applauded for creating it. This is why I think they are worthy of the plaudits. They've singlehandedly made electric cars a realistic ownership proposition.

swajames

They are currently looking for a location to build their *own* battery manufacturing facility. Still, the battery itself isn't necessarily the key component. The motors and power management technologies are equally important contributors to the range and capability.

spwolf

battery is the most important part and even having their own factory doesnt mean much - they dont own the tech... I never heard of Tesla even researching battery tech.

I dont see Tesla doing anything with their tech that major manufacturers cant do... but nobody wants to invest their money and time into building 20-30k cars per year though.

At what point does the Tesla become major part of the industry, how many cars is that? 100k/yr? 300k? 1mil?

Sulu

Is Tesla the world's most important automaker? This is only the opinion of one analyst. Ask another analyst and he will say that another automaker is the most important, for entirely different but equally valid reasons. These are all opinions, put out by very strong-willed people who make their living looking into crystal ***** and then trying to justify what they believe they have seen. In these games, he who yells the loudest is the most important, both as analysts and as CEOs of "world's most important automakers".

There are those who believe that battery-elecric vehicles (BEVs) are not the future of automobiles; they believe that hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) are the future. Ask those analysts and if they yell loud enough, they will convince you that FCVs and not BEVs are the most important automobiles of the future.

Elon Musk is, undoubtedly, a smart man, but like Steve Jobs before him, he knows how to yell loudly. It has been argued -- and I will argue that also -- that neither was particularly innovative in terms of technology; entrepreneurial perhaps, but not particularly innovative.

There is nothing particularly special about Tesla's battery. It is all in the packaging and the courage to use off-the-shelf commodity batteries (small, individual battery cells that are normally used to power laptop computers). Other automakers thought big and designed special automotive-only batteries for their own electric and hybrid-electric cars. Panasonic (which was a partner with Toyota in designing and building Toyota's hybrid batteries) supplies these off-the-shelf battery cells to Tesla.

Elon Musk had the idea to package off-the-shelf laptop batteries, add in some heat-management techniques not used in laptop computers, and -- voila -- he has a cheaper automotive lithium-ion battery; this is Tesla's innovation. Imagine if some other manufacturer (other than Samsung, Apple, Blackberry, etc.) were to build and sell a smartphone right now that was powered not by their own unique battery pack, but powered by a number of AAA-cell batteries wired together into a battery pack. Their battery packs (and therefore their smartphones) would be cheaper and the batteries may be easily replaceable by buying off-the-shelf AAA-cells at Radio Shack. (Actually, this was done: the first Palm-Pilot personal digital assistants were powered by AAA-cells.)

LeX2K

Tesla's innovations go so far beyond just the battery pack. The entire car is unique and extremely well executed. It is by all accounts the safest car on the road, handles extremely well, is nearly silent etc. etc. it's not just a run of the mill vehicle with an electric drivetrain slapped on it. You make it sound like it's just that easy to make a great electric car, you must also think it's so easy to make a great gas burning car as well. That's why everyone does it right?

What's incredibly bizarre to me is many people don't seem to realize that a hydrogen fuel cell car IS an electric powered car, in fact they even has a lithium/ion battery pack. The difference in a fuel cell car is how the energy is stored and released, and of course the source of the energy. Toyota on their website claims hydrogen is a fuel which is 100% false, it is an energy carrier just like a battery pack. The actual energy is obtained elsewhere, which currently is very likely natural gas.

There are also some serious issues with hydrogen fuel cells, they literally freeze in cold weather. To combat that the fuel cell needs to be heated to get it going, after that the fuel cell itself will usually generate enough heat to keep itself from becoming a popsicle. So basically in cold climates your fuel cell car will have to have a "block heater" powered by the electric grid or forget starting your car in cold weather.

...BTW on Toyota's website they say that by 2024 California "expects" to have 100 hydrogen fueling stations. In 10 years there will be how many dedicated electric vehicle charging stations out there? Not to mention with an electric car YOU are in control of how you feed it energy. With a hydrogen fuel cell nope, you are still a slave to whatever companies are more than happy to sell you the fuel. And guess what companies will be the ones selling you the hydrogen? Hint, you just might be buying gasoline from them today.

swajames

No, it isn't. And no, they can't.

swajames

Can you point to another manufacturer which can offer a large, comfortable, well-designed, high-quality, extremely fast, extremely capable electric car with well-executed technology that can, for many customers, work as their only car and back it up with charging infrastructure? Musk has put his considerable money where his mouth is and has delivered something no-one else has been able to deliver.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

I have enjoyed reading the posts above, very good points made and angles taken to make an argument. I will keep it simple because I know importance is relative. For me, when they have proven to make "affordable" and reliable cars (and thus can convert Toyota and Honda owners), then my answer may begin to shift. And I mean affordable minus governments incentives. I see a large range of cars from almost all auto makers. It has been funny to see BMW and MB come down to the 30K range in recent years.

But does Tesla want to dilute their brand? Are they for the well-to-do? I do not know their long term goals in this regard. I mean look at their hub...elitist and overpriced Palo Alto, Ca (which yes, I know, is in the heart of the tech world).

It is evident Tesla is pushing other companies to innovate and provide alternatives to the growing number of people interested in electric vehicles. I would expect nothing less, however. Sink or swim.

swajames

I think you forget that Lexus itself didn't start out building an affordable car - the LS400 certainly wasn't aimed at Honda and Toyota buyers, and much like the Model S (and Roadster before it) served as the testbed for the brand and the technologies that would later trickle down to more affordable cars. This is broadly what Tesla is doing with the the Model X and Model E.

Oh, and greetings from elitist and overpriced Silicon Valley.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

Yes but the LS was 1990 or so? So with that logic Tesla is how far off from potentially being on Toyota's level? All I was saying is that time will tell, in terms of volume of sales.

I am originally from overpriced Monterey County. The whole coastal corridor is! But I am a proud Californian. Don't get it twisted if I wanted to live there I would, my wife lived in San Ramon for 5 years. Had I not broke ground on our home out here then I would probably have relocated because I can work almost anywhere. She was with 24 Hour Fitness corporate, and they have no presence in the central valley. Don't take it personal buddy, you live in a beautiful area. Back on topic.

Sulu

Large, comfortable, premium cars are relatively easy. Talk to me again when Tesla brings out a premium-feeling (comfortable, high-quality interior) compact or mid-size BEV (Nissan Leaf competitor) at Toyota and Nissan prices. Beat the Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius at their game -- and be profitable -- and I will be willing to consider Tesla again as world's most important automaker (if they have not been bought out by some other automaker by that time).

But it is obvious that you have been smitten by Elon Musk's charms (and loud yelling) and are not willing to listen to other opinions. So I will stop discussing with you -- it is useless having a discussion with someone who is not willing to consider other points of view.

swajames

The Model X and Model E will support these markets. The point is that the Model S is the first car Tesla designed and built itself - and it's a very accomplished car for what is effectively its first foray into the segment. The Leaf is a great car, but it does require its buyers to make more compromises than the Tesla. My own opinions of Musk actually aren't all that different from yours in many respects, but I do respect what he's done and I do admire his ability to execute. As wealthy as he may be, he doesn't have the development resources or budgets of mainstream manufacturers - and that's why the S and Tesla deserve praise. They've effectively pioneered a new segment and supported it with infrastructure. That's a big achievement for whats still a relatively young company.