Originally Posted by cmk1

Mmarshall, I take issue with a few comments you made here. The Infiniti grille is not a copy of the Lexus spindle grille, which both date back to 2008 developmentally. The Essence concept was designed during the second half of that year and the Lexus CT200h basic design was on paper as well.

Original proposals for what was to be the V37 G saloon, were finalized in 2009 and were scheduled for presentation in April 2011 at the 2011 NYIAS. Due to some cancellations and delays in April 2010 related to Daimler AG, design work of the proposed V37 was redone concerning possible datedness and finalized in June of 2011. That became the Q50 after de Nysschen joined Infiniti in July 2012. The LF-Gh concept (developed from 2010) premiered 2 months earlier at the NYIAS. The L10 GS design was approved ahead of that in 2009.

The JX35 itself, was mostly a 2009 design effort, unveiled in August 2011, and launched in April 2012. Earlier, the 2011 facelift for the FX introduced the new grille. Infiniti generally approves facelift work some 16-18 months before scheduled start of production, so that would point to early-mid 2010. I do not believe it is fair to accuse companies of copying competitors, when development work takes quite a bit of time to execute from concept to showroom launch.

Other than that, a very excellent, objective, and thorough review.

Originally Posted by LexFather

The thing is the consumer has taken MMarshall's view. Honestly they are quite different, the Infiniti grill is simply a pinched grill. The Lexus spindle is the entire front face including the lower air dam and flows into the hood line. I don't think either company meant to copy one another, it just happens that Lexus is more well known and has done a better job presenting it and Lexus did a heck of a lot of advertising for the new "face of Lexus".

Originally Posted by mmarshall

The Q50 is probably too new on the market, right now, to really have an accurate gauge on just what the consumer is going to think about it in the long run, or how well it will sell. We know, for example, that the predecessor G-sedans/coupes were a success..that is probably why Infiniti still keeps them in the current lineup. On the issue of grilles, though, I agree that it was not necessarily a blatant copy (or maybe even deliberate)....but, as I noted before,it is no secret that Infiniti considers Lexus their closest competitor, even though there is a big difference in overall sales. On the Q50's specific grille, I saw it as a heavily-scaled-down version of the Lexus spindle, not a direct copy. As you note, the Lexus grille extends much lower and has stronger angles.

Originally Posted by LexFather

My wife thinks I'm nuts but the Q50 hybrid would make a great DD. $419 a month, 0 down. Swap out the the front bumper for the Sport, get a Ap Racing BBK, RSR coilovers, Stillen kit and exhaust and that is what still plays in my mind, especially since I was very happy with my GS 450h and I just love the looks of the Q50.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Granted, the Q50 is a nice car (though a little noisy in some ways for my tastes). But, compared to that superb LS F-Sport in your family, I don't see any comparison. There are some new Lexus/Toyota products I'm not impressed with (and I make no bones about that). But the LS460, without question, is one of the best luxury cars on the planet. Consider yourself fortunate to have one.

Originally Posted by cmk1

Mmarshall, I take issue with a few comments you made here. The Infiniti grille is not a copy of the Lexus spindle grille, which both date back to 2008 developmentally. The Essence concept was designed during the second half of that year and the Lexus CT200h basic design was on paper as well.

Original proposals for what was to be the V37 G saloon, were finalized in 2009 and were scheduled for presentation in April 2011 at the 2011 NYIAS. Due to some cancellations and delays in April 2010 related to Daimler AG, design work of the proposed V37 was redone concerning possible datedness and finalized in June of 2011. That became the Q50 after de Nysschen joined Infiniti in July 2012. The LF-Gh concept (developed from 2010) premiered 2 months earlier at the NYIAS. The L10 GS design was approved ahead of that in 2009.

The JX35 itself, was mostly a 2009 design effort, unveiled in August 2011, and launched in April 2012. Earlier, the 2011 facelift for the FX introduced the new grille. Infiniti generally approves facelift work some 16-18 months before scheduled start of production, so that would point to early-mid 2010. I do not believe it is fair to accuse companies of copying competitors, when development work takes quite a bit of time to execute from concept to showroom launch.

Other than that, a very excellent, objective, and thorough review.

Originally Posted by LexFather

Ironically, de Nysschen doesn't seem to like the looks of the Q50 or current models and thinks they are too curvy and wavy and the Q50 is the old way of thinks The new Q30 I believe will debut the new design language which will be more sharp and "latin" according to the latest news.

Originally Posted by hlee12

hyundai also tried this. development in 07, debuted in 09.


i'm sure they canned it because it was not pretty. i vomited when i saw it for the first time. lol ironically infiniti now has similar grill which i despise.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

but, as I noted before,it is no secret that Infiniti considers Lexus their closest competitor

Originally Posted by LexFather

I don't blame you at all for saying what you did with the grill because in real life, people are saying the same things.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Granted, the Q50 is a nice car (though a little noisy in some ways for my tastes). But, compared to that superb LS F-Sport in your family, I don't see any comparison.

Originally Posted by cmk1

Mmarshall, I take issue with a few comments you made here. The Infiniti grille is not a copy of the Lexus spindle grille, which both date back to 2008 developmentally. The Essence concept was designed during the second half of that year and the Lexus CT200h basic design was on paper as well.

Original proposals for what was to be the V37 G saloon, were finalized in 2009 and were scheduled for presentation in April 2011 at the 2011 NYIAS. Due to some cancellations and delays in April 2010 related to Daimler AG, design work of the proposed V37 was redone concerning possible datedness and finalized in June of 2011. That became the Q50 after de Nysschen joined Infiniti in July 2012. The LF-Gh concept (developed from 2010) premiered 2 months earlier at the NYIAS. The L10 GS design was approved ahead of that in 2009.

The JX35 itself, was mostly a 2009 design effort, unveiled in August 2011, and launched in April 2012. Earlier, the 2011 facelift for the FX introduced the new grille. Infiniti generally approves facelift work some 16-18 months before scheduled start of production, so that would point to early-mid 2010. I do not believe it is fair to accuse companies of copying competitors, when development work takes quite a bit of time to execute from concept to showroom launch.

Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN

They do?
In all the press I've seen over the years (especially in the past 15 years or so) they have clearly mentioned targeting BMW, not Lexus. Just because they're both Japanese luxury brands doesn't mean they consider Lexus "its closest competitor". Yet you say it's no secret. I say it is a secret, because I have never heard them say in any press event or news article that they consider Lexus its closest competitor.

Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN

What people? Your Lexus friends?
Who else is saying the new Q50 grille is a copy of the spindle grille? any links from any reputable sources?.

Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN

Hmm, for such an enthusiast as yourself, I'm a little confused as to why you would compare the entry level Q50 to the Flagship LS?

Of course it's not going to "compare" to the LS, it's not intended to compare with it. This is probably one of the most head-scratching posts I've ever read on here (and I've been reading this board as a lurker for a long long long time).

Originally Posted by LexFather

They mentioned targeting BMW a decade ago. Considering they offer 4 SUVs and Lexus has 3 and both offer sporty sedans seems pretty similar. His opinion is solid, he is not making it to be that this is the end game. Don't get so upset, geez.

Originally Posted by LexFather

Originally Posted by LexFather

Why are you taking his comment that far out of context? He is simply wondering why I would consider a Q50S hybrid. It would be an addition, not a replacement, a Daily Driver for me.

What is head scratching about Mike and I who have known each other for quite sometime having a candid conversation about vehicle choices. Relax.

Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN

Yes, they're all competitive with each other. Of course Lexus is on their radar as a major competitor, I just question this apparent common knowledge that Lexus is their biggest. They're not and they've never stated that. They have made various statements over the years about BMW being their target, however.

Originally Posted by Lex2InfiN

Y

You clearly stated it would be an addition to your lineup, not a replacement for the LS. So to me, it just sounds like a jab against the Q50. That's like saying "why do you still own a 3rd generation GS when you have a new LS now?"

Must all your vehicles be as good as a brand new LS? of course not, so I still don't understand why he made the comment. Clearly your 3rd gen GS doesn't "compare" to your new LS either, but you still keep it around for some reason, right?[