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Old 05-17-14, 03:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Toyota rebounded from the pedal issue because they started doing all these voluntary recalls right after the pedal problem.

I can forgive Toyota for the pedal issue but I won't be forgiving GM on this one.
There's nothing to forgive Toyota for the pedal issue. In the end it was all user error and not Toyota's fault...so you're forging Toyota for nothing...
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Old 05-17-14, 10:47 PM   #62
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There's nothing to forgive Toyota for the pedal issue. In the end it was all user error and not Toyota's fault...so you're forging Toyota for nothing...
I've been saying this for years. Yet the media has done so much damage, most people today think otherwise. Sad. Toyota needs to sue the media for yellow jounralism and defamation.
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Old 05-18-14, 12:24 AM   #63
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I've been saying this for years. Yet the media has done so much damage, most people today think otherwise. Sad. Toyota needs to sue the media for yellow jounralism and defamation.
1,000% agreed. Even NASA tested the "unintended" acceleration pedal issue and concluded it wasn't Toyota's fault...most people only see the negative.

When everything is running smoothly and running like it's suppose too no one notices...but when there's a screw up the whole world notices and it's the end of the world...
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Old 05-18-14, 11:30 AM   #64
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In the end it was all user error and not Toyota's fault...
I don't necessarily agree. The first publicized fatality from that mess was in an ES350 with a State Trooper driving. Believe me, those guys aren't a bunch of dodos behind the wheel. They are given VERY extensive driver-training at high speeds, including how to handle driving-emergencies like a stuck throttle.
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Old 05-18-14, 01:17 PM   #65
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I don't necessarily agree. The first publicized fatality from that mess was in an ES350 with a State Trooper driving. Believe me, those guys aren't a bunch of dodos behind the wheel. They are given VERY extensive driver-training at high speeds, including how to handle driving-emergencies like a stuck throttle.
It was known the dealer had installed the wrong floor mats on the trooper's loaner car. The stuck floor mats and lack of knowledge on how to shut down the ignition is what was behind the entire fiasco. No electrical flaw or glitch was ever proven or discovered with any car (also verified by NASA). To my knowledge, all software fixes and recalls delt with changes on how the car could be shut down via the ignition button while in a panic.
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Old 05-18-14, 01:34 PM   #66
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I don't necessarily agree. The first publicized fatality from that mess was in an ES350 with a State Trooper driving. Believe me, those guys aren't a bunch of dodos behind the wheel. They are given VERY extensive driver-training at high speeds, including how to handle driving-emergencies like a stuck throttle.
I agree a State Trooper is not a dodo but there was nothing wrong with that ES 350. In fact that one of those ES 350 was resold and it ran just fine.

The media might as blame Toyota for Global warming, heck blame Toyota for WWI, WWII and WWIII. Don't stop there blame everything that has gone wrong with this entire world...heck the entire universe on Toyota....
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Old 05-18-14, 01:45 PM   #67
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it was never toyota's fault technically. what did hurt toyota though was how they handled it.

it's truly ludicrous and unfair that toyota got whacked withover a billion and GM gets hit with $35million.
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Old 05-18-14, 04:08 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I don't necessarily agree. The first publicized fatality from that mess was in an ES350 with a State Trooper driving. Believe me, those guys aren't a bunch of dodos behind the wheel. They are given VERY extensive driver-training at high speeds, including how to handle driving-emergencies like a stuck throttle.
I think you are missing a few details

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It was known the dealer had installed the wrong floor mats on the trooper's loaner car. The stuck floor mats and lack of knowledge on how to shut down the ignition is what was behind the entire fiasco. No electrical flaw or glitch was ever proven or discovered with any car (also verified by NASA). To my knowledge, all software fixes and recalls delt with changes on how the car could be shut down via the ignition button while in a panic.
Yup
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Old 05-18-14, 04:18 PM   #69
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I think you are missing a few details



Yup
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Originally Posted by Fizzboy7
It was known the dealer had installed the wrong floor mats on the trooper's loaner car. The stuck floor mats and lack of knowledge on how to shut down the ignition is what was behind the entire fiasco.

Come on, guys. So a thick mat interfered a little with the gas pedal. Are you saying that a professional State Trooper doesn't know how to shift into neutral and/or bring the ignition back to the OFF (Non-Locking) position? Give me a break....I could do that blindfolded when I was 17 years old (IMO, anyone who can't do that probably shouldn't have a drivers' license)....and the average state trooper could probably drive rings around me and most of us. I just find it very difficult to pin this on a trooper...you have to have a lot of things on the car malfunction all at once for one of those guys to get into that kind of trouble.
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Old 05-18-14, 04:29 PM   #70
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Default REPORT: Prior driver of loaner Lexus in fatal crash told dealer of floormat issue

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A few weeks ago, we learned that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ruled that the crash of a loaner Lexus ES350 that killed San Diego police officer Mark Saylor, his wife, 13-year-old daughter and brother in law was not just the result of an improper RX400h floor mat sticking the accelerator wide open it was due to a range of factors. In addition to the car having the wrong mats, the brake "rotors were discolored and heated, had very rough surfaces, had substantial deposits of brake pad material, and showed signs of bright orange oxidation on the cooling fins consistent with endured braking."

According to the San Diego Union Tribune, it turns out that three days before the crash, Frank Bernard had been given the loaner Lexus and experienced the floor mat sticking the throttle wide open. "[W]hile merging onto Interstate 15 from the Poway Road on-ramp, [Bernard] took his foot off the gas and the car kept accelerating, to 85 mph." Here's where it gets even more tragic:

"Bernard pressed long and hard on the brakes and was able to pull over and slow down. He put the car into neutral, but the engine continued to race at full speed. After several failed attempts at turning off the engine, he realized the floor mat had jammed the gas pedal. He slid his foot under the accelerator, dislodged it and had no further problems, the report says."

As stated above, without brake-assist (which would disappear after a few moments due to loss of engine vacuum at wide-open throttle) Bernard was able to stop the car, but the brakes would have been fairly stressed. Bernard returned the car to the dealership, but only told a receptionist about the floor mat incident. For her part, the receptionist at first stated she didn't remember Bernard or his story, but later changed her tune, stating that she told a vehicle specialist about the issue. The vehicle specialist denies ever hearing about it. And the vice president of Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon has no comment.

The question then becomes if the proper personnel had been alerted to Mr. Bernard's incident, would the ES350 have received new brakes and the correct mats before it was lent to the Saylors? It should also be noted that the ES350 was loaned to two other customers between Bernard and the Saylors without incident. Toyota has since recalled 3.8 million vehicles to reshape and replace accelerator pedals.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/07/r...h-told-dealer/
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Old 05-18-14, 04:32 PM   #71
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Come on, guys. So a thick mat interfered a little with the gas pedal. Are you saying that a professional State Trooper doesn't know how to shift into neutral and/or bring the ignition back to the OFF (Non-Locking) position? Give me a break....I could do that blindfolded when I was 17 years old (IMO, anyone who can't do that probably shouldn't have a drivers' license)....and the average state trooper could probably drive rings around me and most of us. I just find it very difficult to pin this on a trooper...you have to have a lot of things on the car malfunction all at once for one of those guys to get into that kind of trouble.
I'll give him the benefit of a doubt with the inability to shut the car off in a panic. I don't even know how (nor have I tried) to shut my GS down while in motion. Switching to neutral gear combined with braking and the use of the parking brake is a fail safe way to stop a car in almost every situation. It is a shame he died, but some thing just doesn't quite match up.
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Old 05-18-14, 04:44 PM   #72
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OK, anyhow, we can argue the Toyota/Lexus cases all night (I sometimes get carried away myself, and there are separate threads for that issue). But let's not get too far off topic on this thread, which is the GM ignition-switch issue.
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Old 05-21-14, 01:26 PM   #73
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Default Is the auto industry's seemingly endless stream of recalls the new normal?

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In its latest wave of recall announcements this week, General Motors said it would repair nearly a quarter-million vehicles for safety defects that included worn seat belts, worn shift cables, malfunctioning airbags and hazardous fuse boxes.

That was Tuesday.

Only five days earlier, the company announced five separate recalls that covered problems ranging from malfunctioning headlights to malfunctioning taillights, brake problems and, in one case, a safety defect with its 2014 Chevrolet Silverado, Tahoe and GMC Sierra is so severe that owners have been advised to have their trucks flat-bedded to dealerships for repairs.

And there's a new recall today, with GM calling in 218,000 examples of its 2004-2008 Chevy Aveo subcompact over daytime running lamp-related fires.

This may be the new normal and not just for GM. Since an investigation revealed GM had known about an ignition-switch defect that killed 13 people for more than a decade, the company has gone on a spring cleaning of sorts, announcing frequent recalls for a wide range of safety defects. So far in 2014, General Motors has issued 29 recalls that require repairs of approximately 15 million vehicles.

GM is not alone. So far this year, automotive manufacturers have issued recalls for at least 22.4 million vehicles. That's the largest total through five months of the year since 2004, according to Bloomberg

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The sheer quantity "highlights the disturbing number of potential hazards to drivers behind the wheel that have come to light this year," said Bob Darbelnet, the CEO of AAA, the nation's largest motoring organization. He called the 15-million number "distressing."

It's still a staggering number almost reaching the 15.6 million cars sold by all manufacturers combined in the United States last year.

But the heightened spotlight on recalls could be a mixed blessing for consumers. They may be discouraged that the company has not recalled these vehicles sooner, but the defective cars are belatedly being fixed.

"On one hand, it's a positive," said Akshay Anand, an analyst at Kelley Blue Book. "It's a positive we've seen so many recalls under the new GM regime. It means their safety folks are being proactive and not taking chances, especially in light of all that has gone on. At the same time, every additional recall has the potential to tarnish GM's image."

That hasn't happened, at least not according to the automaker's sales totals.

General Motors sales rose 6.9 percent in April year over year, and so far in 2014, the company's sales have ticked upward by 0.1 percent. It perhaps helps the company that many of its cars most closely associated with the ignition-switch recall, the Chevrolet Cobalt, Saturn Ion and Pontiac G5 (shown above), are no longer in production.

Out of 35,000 emails submitted to dealers over the past two years through MojoMotors.com, a used-car shopping website, only two potential buyers have inquired about recalls. "The data suggests in-market used-car shoppers don't seem to care about recalls," says Paul Nadjarian, a former Ford executive who now serves as CEO at MojoMotors. "Recalls are actually good for the consumer, because they force the manufacturers to correct safety-related defected and work hard to avoid them in the future."

Case in point: since the ignition-switch fiasco surfaced, General Motors has reassigned 35 engineers to work as product investigators. The additional workers more than double its investigative staff, company spokesperson Alan Adler said. The company now has 60 employees working in product investigation.

They work for a team created under the company's new safety czar, Jeff Boyer, who was appointed in the wake of the ignition-switch problem. Half will work internally, ferreting out issues in new cars. Half will work externally, helping GM respond to issues raised by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and other outside organizations.

The reinforced safety staff will "help us fulfill our mission to look at issues that come up much more quickly," Adler said. "Recalls have a negative connotation, and that's unavoidable. But we're able to surface issues much more quickly now, and address them as needed."
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/21/g...ry-new-normal/
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Old 05-21-14, 01:28 PM   #74
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So far in 2014, GM has issued 29 recalls covering approximately 15 million vehicles.
Notice every couple days this past month a recall is being issued (note the 2014 Recall Thread). They've been hiding A LOT and it's all cascading back now
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Old 05-21-14, 01:51 PM   #75
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Thanks for sharing Hoovey2411.
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Old 05-21-14, 01:51 PM
 
 
 
 
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