Stereorob

Ok we all know you aren't gunna find remote touch interfaces, key fobs, or laser guided cruise control in a 20 year old Ls400 or Es300, but with all this new technology... Has it come with a price? Do you think lexus has started cutting corners on some things or are they as good or better as they were 20 years ago? Has the quality suffered in them over the years? Do you think the current generation of lexus vehicles will still be rolling around mechanically sound 20+ years from now with faded paint and cracked leather like the ones of yesteryear are now? Will they even last as long? As someone that works for lexus, I can't say yay or nay on this topic but I'm very curious to see what others think about lexus of today vs lexus a long time ago. Do you think a 2014 ES350 will live as long as a 1994 ES300? Will a 2014 LS460 still be hanging on in 2039 like the 1990 LS400 is today?

Mr. Burns

Modern cars are built better than old ones and will always last longer. That remote touch may fail, but mechanically and structurally the car will be fine.

RXSF

I know we complain a lot about the new lexus cars. A lot of people think that they have begun to cost corners, but honestly, the opposite has happened.

I think everyone's standard has just risen significantly, and we have grown to expect more in this modern world.

When I think back to my original Lexus cars, a 99 RX300 and a 2002 IS300, I can remember the toyota stamped windows , the hard plastic dash (not even injection molded soft touch plastic) in the IS300, the flimsy cup holders in the RX (and the lack thereof in the IS), etc. Contrary to what people may think, I feel that qualify of materials has actually stepped up some, and all of this adds to the cost of making a luxury car. So while they may have taken steps back in terms of reliability and quality control, they have stepped up in other places.

Aron9000

I think some of the longevity might have to do with the ease and cost of service on older model Lexus cars. Notice how you don't see nearly the number of 20 year old BMW or Benzes on the road as you do Lexus.

I'm thinking a big part of that is that people junk their 15 year old BMW or Benz with 150-200k miles on it when its only worth $3-6k, and needs $3k worth of work.

I'm going to say that the 2014 Lexus cars will still be around in 2034 provided they don't cost a fortune to fix, or have some Achilles heel. Wiring harness made of bio-degradable materials is a big one that comes to mind on 90's Benz products, idea was to make them more environmentally friendly when you scrap them. Seems like a few extra years on the road giving dependable service and keeping somebody from buying a new car would be more environmentally friendly, but I digress.

Fizzboy7

If anyone can make today's high-tech cars last, it's Toyota/Lexus. So I wouldn't worry.
Also, today's car costs more because of all these new features, but they are also worth more ten years from now too. So in that regard, it's a wash. You just get more for your money between the aquisition and termination.

Whitigir

Older lexus exterior look boring. Newer lexus exterior look exciting, and eyes popping. Interior may change to be less appealing, but overall still better than the other brands :-)

corradoMR2

This is exactly right and the fact is, all other manufacturers from entry-level to luxury cars have all stepped up their game in the last 20+ years to catch up to better materials, fit/finish and NVH standards. The net result is mostly a perception that Lexus has slipped. However, not defending Lexus here and I think that they must step it up again in this area to further distinguish themselves like they did in the past. One concrete example is to minimize the use of an increasingly amount of hard plastics in the car where it is visible and to the touch, at minimum reduce or eliminate this in the center console. There should be very little place for this in this specific area in any Lexus, even a CT, IS, ES again because the perception today is hard plastic = cheap (even if the hard plastic is of high quality ). Personally, I would pay a small premium even $1K more to "feel and see" the premium materials and quite frankly Lexus has pricing room here as they still undercut their main German competitors.

Back to the OP's original post. Mechanically, I'd bet today's Lexus vehicles will last just as long if not longer than those in the past. JD Power and other surveys consistently put Lexus/Toyota at the top so I have no doubt about this. However, electronics aside, some other parts/trim I do question such as leather seats and the floor carpeting material. I have seen carpeting thickness/plushness and overall perceived quality dip. My 2RX and 2IS carpeting (even the floor mats) were superior to my latest Gens. Also, I see my stiffer and arguably thinner 3RX leather seating cracking a lot quicker than my softer thicker feeling 2RX's. On the flipside however, the Nuluxe material is a winner in this department. On my CT after 2.5 years of ownership, not a single blemish, wear, or crack - they look brand new and I expect my 3IS F-Sport seats to be as durable.

Stereorob

I think the new vs old RX is a exellent example of how the newer ones are better. I've driven every era of them working there and the newer ones are light years ahead of the early ones. Much more stable on the road better fit and finish etc. same for the new ES.

Stereorob

I like the nuluxe material as well. Feels really nice but being that it's biodegradable I'm just wondering if it might brake down faster than real leather. Still not something to worry about though for a good ten years.

yowps3

Engine wise I'd say the engines of today's Lexus will last. The usual solid toyota engines.

Exterior wise they're good. While their interior are on the flimsier side compared to the older ones. But the're still far better than all their competitors in this regard.

Best interior of luxury brand;

Lexus
Infiniti (Q50>>>>IS, ES though)
Audi
MB
BMW

Acura? We don't have that here but judging from photography I'd say it's either 2nd or 3rd in the list

JM51526

I think the body, suspension, and drivetrain on newer Lexus' are every bit as well built as the old ones.

As for if we'll see old ones hanging on like the early models, I don't know. When/if the climate control LCD blacks out on a first generation LS400, it still works fine, and costs maybe $100 to fix if you choose to. If the control screen dies on some modern Lexus', it would cost a grand or two to fix - and the heat/AC/stereo won't work without it. As the car depreciates that cost comes closer to the cost of the car, and more people would be likely to junk the car or dump it for cheap.

I'm hoping that technology will improve to where we can fix/replace such control units cheaper and easier. If they last all is well. If they don't, they're the achilles heel.

Stereorob

Good point. The touchscreen displays, the remote touch displays etc.. Hope there not made with the same chemicals and materials they were using on the early 90s displays.. I think this generation will last but truly the only way to awnser these questions is to wait till they really are old cars. I think as they age they will develop there own unique weird problems like the early ones but it won't effect the mechanical issues or keep the car from being drivable.

Problems common in the early Ls400 were.. Flickering needles, blacked out climate controls, cracking leather, chronic power steering leaks, seatbelt pretentioners failing, a lot of these problems were corrected by the 2nd gen Ls400. I've never seen a post 1995 Ls400 with burned out needles . The climate control still fades on a post 95, seats still crack, seatbelt pretentioners seemed to get worse with the refresh. Then by 98 they fixed everything by the 2nd refresh but the cracking leather issues, atleast what I've observed. The early Ls430s are starting to get old enough to have hiccups but i haven't heard anything really awful so far. I do know that there was one bad year for lexus if you could call it that. 2004. But it was more a fit and finish problem than a mechanical one. Mostly in the RX of that year, the dashboards all cracked. Lexus only used that chemical one year and never did again. Atleast lexus, unlike most car companies learned from there mistakes and corrected the problem as soon as it was discovered.

Stereorob

But as far as the power steering diarrhea problem. That affected all Ls400s across the entire live of that model, from 90 to 2000.

mmarshall

Lexus engines and powertrains have, in general, gotten better through the years....and they still rank among the best in the industry. The surface glitter and trim of some Lexus newer interiors has also improved, athough the new IS and ES seem to be exceptions (the 4Gen ES, IMO, was clearly the nicest) Also improved are many of the already-excellent paint jobs....though, recently, I've noticed some inconsistancies (and more orange-peel) than in some earlier ones.

There have been two noticeable declines over the years, though. First, the interior materials themselves, underneath the improving surface-glitter, have not improved....just the opposite. They have gotten thinner, lighter-weight, and flimsier. Electronic controls/video-screens are much more complex to operate than the simpler, less-distracting controls of yore....and that can, and does, contribute to accidents.

Second, even on supposedly "luxury" and conservative-oriented models, there has been a mass, wholesale shift to larger wheels, lower-profile tires, quicker steering ratios, and firmer suspensions/underpinnings. This mass-shift to sportiness covers not only Lexus, but much of the auto industry in general. Though not every car today rides like a hard-edged sports-car or an old pickup truck, in general, there has been a noticeable loss, across the board, in ride comfort, and a noticeable gain in steering response and flat cornering. In several Lexus products, road noise is also higher than before, not only because of the lower, wider tires, but also because of a more penny-pinching lack of sound-insulation in the wheel wells.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Mechanically new cars are better than old ones now. The risk however is that the technology on new ones is more likely to fail, and looking at how many ECU's and systems are computer controlled and integrated they can make fixes very expensive.