SW17LS

I think going from this:



To this is taking a car that is just an appliance and making it something someone might want to own and drive for some reason other than "its reliable":

yowps3

Camry isn't the problem. Kids on the internet are though LOL

The Camry is an easy car to bash. Yet the Camry does 5.8 seconds 0-60 that beats most 'sport cars'

speedflex

Amen, brother. Amen.

SW17LS

Then why have sales for the most part and market share consistently declined over the past 5 years?

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I kind of like the current Camry. I wanted to get one and and slam it on 19 inch Work Wheels. Throw on a muffler and some tint and it would make a cool daily driver.

TwiBlueG35

I don't know the point of this thread. Toyota Camry is still the best selling car in this country isn't it? Then what is the problem? In my opinion this generation is at least much better looking than the last generation, and I don't see apparent drop down in sales figures.

speedflex

It is still the best seller but it's had to scrap harder now than ever to stay there. Toyota has been aggressive to make sure it maintains its lead, but that lead has been eroding. Many competitors have eaten away at its market share and that will no doubt continue. The thing is, buyers want a little more style and sex appeal, even in their family hauler and many are being lured away. The Camry will have to spice things up to remain on top.

84Cressida

You conveniently leave out the fact that the economy tanked in 2008, along with fuel prices sky rocketing.

84Cressida

Because there's simply more players in the segment. People here want to blame the Camry for "losing sales" (let's just ignore the fact that both 2012 and 2013 are up over each other and previous years), yet the Camry's current sales high, 2007, was one year before the economy tanked and the markets collapsed, and it was also a time when the only decent cars being built were the Camry and Accord.

SW17LS

Thats just the point...nobody is saying there is a problem there was simply an article posted quoting Akio Toyoda as saying that the 2015 Camry was going to be a heavier refresh and that he intends to inject more style and personality into the car in response to new improved competition.

Its just that some of the more single minded Toyota fans on here believe that anything other than total adoration of this brand constitutes "flaming" the product.

No matter how well something sells now doesn't mean it will always be that way. Missteps happen...look at the Ford Taurus as a great example of that. In its day it was the Camry...best selling car of all...one poor redesign and its a rental car. Over time if the segment is desiring cars with more substance than the Camry (which...lets be honest isn't an exciting looking or feeling car)...it certainly is not impossible that may occur. So its good Toyota recognizes this and is prepared to make improvements before it becomes a problem...thats all we're saying. The fanboys would say we're heretics for saying such a thing on a Lexus forum which is absurd IMHO.

Right...more players...taking sales and market share from Toyota. More and better competition means the product has to be better. Its really pretty simple.

Sales were up in 2012 for many reasons, new Camry model, the vastly improved economy. Note market share was not up, it was down. Sales for everybody were up.

You can make excuses all you want...many of us will choose to support Toyota's decision to improve the car. Note...we are not simply suggesting they do so...THEY THEMSELVES have said it needs to be done and they will do so...so I have absolutely zero idea where you apologists are coming from.

You're saying the brand is wrong that their product needs to improve?!?!

mmarshall

The Taurus except for the latest version, always WAS a rental car.......even aside from the controversially-styled 1995-1999 models. That's partly how it achieved the huge sales figures it held for years...up there with the Accord and Camry. The Accord and Camry, though, made more direct sales/leases to the public, and not as many to rental-car companies.

SW17LS

I'm aware of that, it was dramatized for emphasis

One cannot deny the sharp drop off in sales of the Taurus. So what is your point? Are you saying that Toyota can do no wrong? Theres no chance...ever...that Toyota will loose sales dominance with the Camry? The Accord is only 30k units behind...in 2012 they were 73k units behind.The new Accord is selling very well...

Not just up there...the Taurus was the best selling car in the US for years...outselling the Accord and Camry. Fleet sales were dramatically increased in 1996 to compensate for loss of retail consumers because of the redesign. I'm talking about sales success from 1986-1995 (primarily 91-95).

The market is shifting towards a more dynamic car as older buyers are transitioning out of this segment and younger, more style conscious buyers are moving in. This 2015 heavy facelift is a recognition of that.

One must remember...there was a time when the Camry was not the best selling car. That title has been held by other cars, the Accord, the Taurus. Its hard to maintain a lead with everybody gunning at you. The Accord is right behind them, and perhaps more troubling for Toyota is the fact that the Civic outsells the Corolla. A lot of these buyers stick with their brands and move up. There are more Civic buyers to move into Accord than there are Corolla buyers to move into Camry. Civic sales have really grown over the past 3 years.

spwolf

Sure, but sounds like something that someone wrote back in 2006... or in 2011. It is same story every time.

And yet, the most dynamic car in the segment sells very poorly.

SW17LS

These things happen over time. 2011 was only two model years behind what we're talking about now which is 2013 sales. When I look at sales trends and market share I see more dynamic and interesting cars gaining ground and the Camry consistently losing market share. The Camry itself has become more dynamic and interesting looking. Why do you think they're coming out with an SE Hybrid? Just remember what I said...there was a time Camry was not the best selling car...and it wasn't that long ago...there was a time Corolla outsold Civic by a wide margin...thats no longer the case. Guess what? The Civic is more dynamic, more premium looking and feeling.

Look at Accord sales. They made the Accord smaller, more nimble, more premium looking/feeling and look at sales, up 15% in 2013, closing to within 30k sales of Camry. I'm going to make a bold prediction...in 2014 Accord usurps Camry as best selling car. Perhaps Toyota gets it back in 2015 after this refresh.

You also assign the label "sells very poorly". Mazda is not capable of even producing enough cars to compete at the level of the Camry or Accord even if the demand was there. Sales success for them is what they are selling. Its not a zero sum game.

Boy, I wish all my competitors in business were as overconfident as you LOL. Luckily for all of us current Toyota leadership doesn't seem to be either.

mmarshall

[QUOTE=SW13GS]
Actually, I'm not a terribly big fan of later-model Camrys. I've long-felt (and I'm not alone with my observation) that the best Camry was, far and way, the 4th-Generation 1992-1996 model, and that build quality/solidness took a slow but steady decline for some 15 years after that. The new, latest Camry last year stopped the downward spiral somewhat....but the suspension/tires, even in non-SE models, are now too stiff from mainstream Camry buyers.



During most of the 1990's, the Taurus (including its fleet-sales) see-sawed back and forth in a 3-way race with the Accord and Camry for top-selling car in America. After that classic see-saw, the Camry grabbed the top position and held it for quite a while.

I have to disagree with that. FAR too much emphasis, today, is being put on the so-called "youth" market. But, despite what manufacturers/marketers and the auto press may think, that's not where most of the money is. Study after study shows that the biggest single chunk of auto-buying dollars and disposable income is concentrated in the age 55-65 group.....the tail end of the Baby Boomers who have been working most of their lives, were relatively unaffected by the 2008-present recession, and have sizable nest-eggs and bank-accounts. And, in general, they are still young enough that they will probably 20 or 30 more auto-buying years left...they aren't going anywhere anytime soon, like so many marketers think. So, unfortunately, going after youth does not necessarily translate into going after potential dollars.