RNM GS3

Lexus has had ZERO success with hybrids in terms of sales.
Their mistake was to originally position hybrid variants (GS450h/LS600h/RX400h) to be more expensive and offer more performance rather than focus on the best MPG. Both dealers and customers shunned them completely.

HS was a nightmare.
CT is selling but would sell even better if it had a conventional gas engine.

Umm i was referring to a Hybrid only model - like the Lexus CT and HS.

None of those available hybrid trims from other automakers are significant and have made ZERO impact on overall sales.

That was my whole point. - Nobody cares about Luxury Hybrids thus far!

Vladi

If you are talking hybrid its Lexus pricing that made it a niche, and I am sure they want it to stay like that cause you cant convince me that after a decade spread between GS350 and GS450h is still $10,000. What does that tell you? They don't want to sell GS450h cause if they wanted they would have made it a lot more affordable just like they made IS300h only €2,000 more expensive than IS250 in Europe. So when a customer comes to German showroom the choice is so blatantly obvious which IS to buy. But if that same customer comes to GS or RX line there is still close to €10,000 spread between the base and hybrid so choice is not so obvious.

Nights

That's only from a US perspective. In Europe, and other markets where the price of fuel and also emissions actually matters, hybrids make up a significant proportion of sales. Hence, other manufacturers moving into that market. If they thought there was no money in it, why would they go into that field at significant expense.

geko29

This is utterly nonsensical. I'll illustrate why:

"AWD is a failure in the luxury market, because only Audi offers a sedan (the A7/A8) available exclusively with AWD. All others have two-wheel-drive variants because nobody wants AWD."

OR

"V8 engines are a failure in the luxury market because no one offers a mainstream sedan with that as the only engine choice. There's not enough demand for a dedicated vehicle, ergo there is NO demand."

These likewise makes no sense. It's beyond silly to assume that a particular feature is unwanted or a failure just because only one (or even zero) manufacturers make models that are unavailable without said feature. There's little to no reason to dedicate an entire 10+ year design/production cycle to the promotion of a single feature, when it can simply be offered as an option for those who want it, while appealing to the broadest audience possible--the sum of all people who do or do not want each of the dozens of options. This is why nearly all hybrids (luxury or not) are simply powertrain variants of other models, just like 4/6/8 cylinder gas and diesel variants, turbo or not, auto or manual, 2WD/AWD, etc.

Not all hybrid buyers want a wierd-looking dedicated model like the Prius/HS/C-Max. Some of them just want that powertrain in a "normal" car like an Accord, GS, Fusion, or 3-series. Just like some of us want a 500lbft turbodiesel in a compact sedan, and don't want to be forced into a 3/4 ton pickup to get one.

DFGeneer

IMO, Lexus (and Toyota) made excellent choice to develop their hybrid power trains.

They have absolutely no match in terms of refinement, efficiency and low emissions.

Of course, such "halo" technology will come at a price and thus be very 'niche' in sales numbers, but it is very clear - Lexus/Toyota are now the technological leaders, while the german premium brands - the followers.

..and "Vorsprung durch technik" sounds more like a good joke

SW17LS

To be fair thats only one model. You sound like all Lexus has been doing is designing hybrid only models...and thats just not the case. They already have the HSD powertrain and platform out of the Prius, designing a body around it and creating a model is not that giant a task.

The HS did not do well here, but it does well in Asia where it is still sold. They had a waiting list for the car in Japan. The CT is the second best selling Lexus in Japan, behind the GS by 200 units. The CT also sells here, I see them quite often, and it gets younger people into the brand.

The ES300h sells very well, its a significant percentage of ES sales, projection was 25% and I believe it was actually higher. I think the lesson may be that nobody cares about hybrid drive for performance.

patgilm

I agree. I think the hybrid power trains that are for efficiency, like the ES300h, are excellent buys and do not cost much more than the normal ones. The performance hybrids not so much. They cost so much more and the horsepower gain is not that significant for the minimal added efficiency that they provide over the competitors that use turbos. As for the competitors hybrids, sure they offer them but I have never seen any of them on the road. Do they actually sell many of them in the U.S.?

The engines and power trains Lexus currently offers are the same from a while ago and that is one problem I have with them. From what I understand they are moving forward with new ones but it just seems to take so much longer to get there compared to the other luxury brands. The other problem I have is my '12 GX seems to be built not as "solid" as my '08 GX. I can't really explain it but the doors don't close with the same thud and the seats aren't as durable and it was $12k more than my old GX.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

lolol, thanks for the laugh. i just saw one in town.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

might be true in u.s., but not in london for example, where the ONLY lexus i saw were CTh (lots) and LSh (a few).

hlee12

my mom bought few months ago es300h and hybrid played a key role in her decision. and don't be short sighted. gas price could go up again in this uncertain economy. who knows it will be $5? hybrid sales will take off again.

spwolf

lol, what are you talking about?

you are simply wrong.

dc893

I have driven both and personally I like the Z better than the Fusion. The MKZ hybrids are the easiest sells at the Lincoln dealer where I worked.

I don't like the styling of the A7 at all.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

While I don't agree that Lexus is faltering in anyway, I'm with the OP in that it is no longer a brand for me. There doesn't seem to be a car in the lineup I want to purchase. I sold my beloved 1993 SC300 late last year and will be in the market to replace it in a year ortwo and will be looking at the S-Class coupe. I hope Lexus will have a large grand tourer by then. The current lineup seems like they are trying too hard, but at the same time not trying hard enough.

mmarshall

One thing that is helping both the MKZ and Fusion hybrids is their relatively low base price compared to the gas-engine versions. Lexus, IMO, would be wise to consider a similiar pricing structure for their hybrids. The traditonal arguement argument against that (and there may be some justification for it) is that hybrids cost more to produce, with a substantially more complex powertrain. But, as I see it, if Ford and Lincoln can still make money by keeping hybrid prices down, other companies should generally be able to follow suit.

Mr. Burns

I see them every day. They lack a little something, I mean the shape is decent, but outside the form factor it's just yawn yawn yawn.