LexusChris

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the review, looks to be quite popular as I see the number of them on the road growing here, when looking in the market for a car a few months ago it was either the RAV4 or CR-V, ended up with a CR-V though that won my heart. I wasn't sure about getting a new Jeep that just came out or trust an American made car.

mmarshall

Glad you enjoyed it. That's why I do it...for you guys.

That seems to be the case with a couple of other posters, too.

Given the strong popularity of the last Cherokee, I think you're going to see quite a few more.....although this time, unlike 20-30 years ago, the Cherokee has a LOT more competition in its class. I listed them up at the start of the review....as usually do.

bagwell

nah, not at all.....I had read all the bad reviews about the Liberty beforehand, and didn't even wanna drive one - but my salesperson said to give it a shot and I did....zero rattles, ride was ok (I was really looking for a Ford Escape AWD at the time), and negotiated a price about $5000 less than a comparable Escape (used vehicles, only paid about $17K 2011 with 21K miles in late 2011).

The main thing that bothered me was the 4WD part-time Command-Trac it had. I was in Denver and I couldn't keep it in 4WD (HI) unless the roads were completely covered in snow or ice otherwise you could damage the drivetrain (locked diff?)....kind of a pain in the azz. Of course the MPG sucked too but I didn't drive too much unless it weather was horrible (biked it the 4 miles to work).

mmarshall

Again, glad you enoyed it.

Like I told lamar411 just above, I think you'll soon see a lot more, though, this time, there is significant competition for the Cherokee, most of which didn't exist 20-30 years ago.


Congratulations on your purchase. If you're not going off-road, it's hard to beat a CR-V in some ways, including reliability, ride comfort (by small SUV standards), and the way Honda and Acura products are assembled like a Swiss Watch, with great precision at the factory. However, a CR-V is clearly not the vehicle for heavier-duty off-road stuff, and it lacks a V6 option for extra power.

mmarshall

That is a significant price-saving.....good job on the negotiations. And the Liberty, of course, does gives you off-road capability that the Escape generally doesn't.

Yes, I've suggested that to Jeep representatives for years...that they make the more sophisticated Select-Trac and Quadra-Trac available on more of their lower-line vehicles (Only the former-generation Grand Cherokee and Commander got the Quadra-Trac, and the Cherokee/Liberty had the Select-Trac available as an option). Standard on the Wrangler (and older Cherokee/Liberty models), uness you special-ordered the Select-Trac option, was the primitive standard Command-Trac, which is fine off-road but, as you note, a PITA on some types of hard pavement. (Unfortunately, most of my suggestions to the Jeep folks fell on deaf ears)

Actually, though, the Command-Trac (though the official instructions frown on it) probably can be used on dry pavement as long as the road is arrow-straight or with only VERY gentle curves. That's because Command-Trac is a classic part-time 4WD system, with a low range and driver-operated transfer-case, that, when engaged, locks up all four wheels and rotates them at the same speed. That is fine on a straight road, where all four wheels want to rotate that way, but on a significant curve, the outside wheels want to rotate faster then the inside wheels because of the greater radius of the curve. Without a center differential (which the Command-Trac system lacks) the four wheels aren't allowed to rotate at different speeds, and tire-scrubbing and (sometimes) driveline damage can occur. On-road, on a slick surface, the slickness of the road allows the wheels to slip, and prevents damage, but if the surface is dry, (and sometimes a paved road can vary from slick to wet to dry and back again if the road is unevenly plowed or de-iced) the tires might not slip when needed. Off-road, that is usually not an issue (except for sharp curves on bare rock), since all four tires are on surfaces the allow wheel-slippage and prevent the driveline damage.

mmarshall

This will probably be my last MM full-review for the year. I'm going to take a short break into January....unless I see a new unsold Range Rover or Range Rover Sport available for a review. I've been meaning to review one for some time, but, here in the D.C. area, demand for them substantially exceeds supply.....even with their near 100K price and dealer mark-ups, from the tight supply, on top of that.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Almost had a Liberty as my first car. Ended up with a Mustang

No but numbers sell and on an item that isn't known for excelling in fuel efficiency, SUVs will take the highest numbers they can get.

Poor sales in part because the car itself was poor. A Sergio Marchinone Commander/Grand Wagoneer would be better. Regardless of if it sells well, Jeep needs a 7-8 passenger vehicle to capture potential buyers of other 7-8 passenger SUVs

Well of course, you're paying more for a JGC that can be optioned for more than $50,000 these days

Lil4X

Nice review, Mike! Thanks for your taking the time to write up an often-overlooked off-roader.

I was a little mystified by the lack of a manual transmission for the Cherokee, but it seems Fiat has brought a bit of clearer thinking to MoPar. Today's AT's are far more sophisticated than those of only a few years ago, and when combined with other features like hill-holding and anti-locks, getting off road is now available to practically anyone and doesn't require a full-on rock-hopper to do it. Going off road requires a good deal of common sense. You don't just point the wheels toward the shoulder of the road and stab the throttle. NO off-roader is totally capable - there are plenty of places even a tank can't go - it just requires using your head.

The key to getting your vehicle down some iffy trail is smoothness. You don't apply power, brake, or steering inputs suddenly. That jumpy throttle may give the illusion of power on the street, but off road in sand, mud, or snow, it can bury you up to your hubs in an instant. Now, in the rocks, you quickly learn that a MT has its limitations. If your clutch is going to survive it has to be a REALLY tough one. At that point, it's basically an on-off switch - with a little capability for slipping . . . if you're good. The old Jeep Wranglers had a first gear designed for duty off road. First gear at idle, the vehicle would execute what the old-timers called "the Jeeper's creep" - about a slow walking pace that could get you out of a lot of bad situations. The problem was with those little 4 cyl engines, there wasn't a whole lot of torque available - and torque is the name of the game out where the pavement ends.

The best way to get that torque down to what passes for your "road' is the use of an automatic transmission and a big, slow-turning engine. That torque converter is magic when it comes to putting monster power down very smoothly. Dump the clutch and all you'll accomplish is a showy quad rooster-tail as four wheels attempt to claw their way into Mother Earth. The only reason for an MT off road is that it looks macho - the guys who crawl into the swamps and beaches of the South have learned better. Often times if your wheels are turning faster than the second hand of your watch, they are unable to gain a purchase, and while flooring the throttle may relieve frustration, you may have just committed yourself to an overnight stay right where you are.

Some old friends down in the 'glades made a LOT of money towing self-styled mudrunners out of the swamp. It takes high-flotation tires, a heavy drive train, a Torque-flite (or Allison) transmission, all bolted up to a 426 Hemi IRRIGATION engine (low compression, 2 barrel carb). With the engine package mounted midship for weight distribution, these home-made vehicles can walk into the 'glades, hook onto your shiny new 4WD pickup in waist-deep muck, and slowly drag it back to high ground, no matter how badly you buried it . . . for a fee, of course. Onroad, these "swamp buggies" are dangerous. At 40, they're a handful, and at 60, they're a nightmare. BUT if you've just got to get from here to there without benefit of a road, experience, patience, slow speed, and a mountain of torque gets the job done every time.

mmarshall

Thanks, Bob. I'm not sure how you can say "overlooked", though. Judging by the old Cherokee's sales, it certainly wasn't overlooked, and, of course, the new one is just htting the streets now.....it hasn't been out long enough to be overlooked.


If you watch cable TV's Logging series (Ax Men), one of the featured loggers is Shelby Stanga in the Louisiana Bayou....who picks out submerged cypress logs. He uses one of those old Swamp Buggies you mention....built before the Chrysler Hemi came out. He is an interesting character...you'll chuckle at the way he talks and acts.

http://shelbystanga.com/

mmarshall

"Poor", though, should probably be taken in context. A friend of mine (an older woman) has become (probably) a lifelong Jeep fan. She had an accident on the ice several years ago, running into a snowbank, in an overturned Jeep (apparantly some other vehicle forced her). Even though she was trapped inside for a while until the fire department got her out OK and relatively uninjured, she is convinced that the Jeep's body/roof structure and belt/airbag system helped save her life. Right now, she's actually shopping for a new Cherokee (one reason why I did the review).

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

My family had a 94' Grand Cherokee and it was a delight save for transmission issues. This past May 5th or Cinco De Mayo I had the misfortune of watching a terrible accident involving a Jeep Liberty. Some drunk woman in a Highlander cut from the 1st lane to the 3rd lane and to avoid her this poor young girl was forced to make an emergency manuever. Her car went violently up a hill before rolling back down back onto the freeway landing on its roof. I myself had to make an emergency manuever to avoid large parts of the car that were flying through the air. A tire and wheel was barrelling down onto my A-Pillar/windshield had I not. To my knowledge the girl is in a vegetative state . Granted this new Cherokee has much more safety than a Liberty

mmarshall

Transmission and powertrain issues, especially with differential/final-drive units, were quite common in older Jeeps.

Like I said earlier, I wasn't terribly impressed with the Liberty....as you noted, one of its numerous minuses was tipsiness....though not as bad as earlier Wranglers and CJs. And I really feel sad for this girl. I'll pray for her. She deserves better than that....and a life.

I tend to agree with you, but my friend is still convinced that her previous Jeep (which, of course, was totalled), helped save her life.