Toyota Turbo plans revealed at Tokyo
11-22-13, 07:14 AM
#1
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Toyota Turbo plans revealed at Tokyo
Lexus group manger engine product design Teru Ogawa told motoring.com.au that a family of engines was being developed.
Asked what capacities would be offered, he said “both larger and smaller”. He also said the target was beating the performance and refinement of engines produced by Lexus’ German rivals, such as BMW’s N20 turbo four.
Although the engine is based on the 2.5-litre AR four-cylinder unit, Ogawa said a new crankcase aided low noise, vibration and harshness levels, as do contra-rotating balance shafts. He would not state fuel consumption targets but confirmed the engine had been developed with stop-start capability.
The integrated cylinder head design twins exhaust port one with four and two with three inside the cylinder head and then feeds them separately into the twin scroll turbocharger.
“The fact that you have this integration into two ports here inside the cylinder head is a world premiere,” Ogawa explained through an interpreter.
The dual port exhaust provides for a smoother and faster exhaust flow into the turbocharger, virtually eradicating lag, Ogawa claimed. The system also allows the fitment of a larger turbocharger, making more power available.
“We want to do away with the turbo lag,” he said. “When the customer presses the accelerator the car responds straight away… When you have got that turbo response… we don’t have to make the turbo smaller, which means we can gain the maximum output.”
Response is also aided by repositioning the oil control valve for the VVTi intake and tucking the air-to-water intercooler in close to the engine.
Ogawa explained the integrated cylinder had been successfully achieved because Toyota had been able to resolve issues with water jacket design generated by turbocharger temperatures beyond 900 degrees C.
Separately, Toyota deputy chief officer Satoshi Ogiso, who is best known as the father of the Prius petrol-electric hybrid, said the turbo-petrol engine would be suitable for performance hybrid drivetrains.
“Adding a turbo engine to the hybrid system does not make so much sense for a regular car,” he told motoring.com.au. “But a premium brand or sportier car requires so much performance, so turbocharged hybrid is good for the top-end premium car or sportier car.”
Asked what capacities would be offered, he said “both larger and smaller”. He also said the target was beating the performance and refinement of engines produced by Lexus’ German rivals, such as BMW’s N20 turbo four.
Although the engine is based on the 2.5-litre AR four-cylinder unit, Ogawa said a new crankcase aided low noise, vibration and harshness levels, as do contra-rotating balance shafts. He would not state fuel consumption targets but confirmed the engine had been developed with stop-start capability.
The integrated cylinder head design twins exhaust port one with four and two with three inside the cylinder head and then feeds them separately into the twin scroll turbocharger.
“The fact that you have this integration into two ports here inside the cylinder head is a world premiere,” Ogawa explained through an interpreter.
The dual port exhaust provides for a smoother and faster exhaust flow into the turbocharger, virtually eradicating lag, Ogawa claimed. The system also allows the fitment of a larger turbocharger, making more power available.
“We want to do away with the turbo lag,” he said. “When the customer presses the accelerator the car responds straight away… When you have got that turbo response… we don’t have to make the turbo smaller, which means we can gain the maximum output.”
Response is also aided by repositioning the oil control valve for the VVTi intake and tucking the air-to-water intercooler in close to the engine.
Ogawa explained the integrated cylinder had been successfully achieved because Toyota had been able to resolve issues with water jacket design generated by turbocharger temperatures beyond 900 degrees C.
Separately, Toyota deputy chief officer Satoshi Ogiso, who is best known as the father of the Prius petrol-electric hybrid, said the turbo-petrol engine would be suitable for performance hybrid drivetrains.
“Adding a turbo engine to the hybrid system does not make so much sense for a regular car,” he told motoring.com.au. “But a premium brand or sportier car requires so much performance, so turbocharged hybrid is good for the top-end premium car or sportier car.”
"In the near future we will use downsized turbochargers, also in the Toyota lineup," Ogiso said.
He said the Toyota brand will get turbocharging within a couple of years, but was not specific.
Toyota nameplates will use the technology to improve fuel economy, while Lexus will rely on it more for boosting low-end torque from engines with smaller displacements, Ogiso said.
A 1.4-liter turbo standing in for a 2.0-liter naturally aspirated engine can deliver a 5 percent increase in fuel economy, Ogiso estimated. Fuel economy gains are bigger when turbo engines are combined with manual transmissions than with automatics, he said.
Toyota likely will make a detailed announcement about its turbo strategy in the coming year, partly as a response to Honda's planned turbo push, Ogiso said.
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He said the Toyota brand will get turbocharging within a couple of years, but was not specific.
Toyota nameplates will use the technology to improve fuel economy, while Lexus will rely on it more for boosting low-end torque from engines with smaller displacements, Ogiso said.
A 1.4-liter turbo standing in for a 2.0-liter naturally aspirated engine can deliver a 5 percent increase in fuel economy, Ogiso estimated. Fuel economy gains are bigger when turbo engines are combined with manual transmissions than with automatics, he said.
Toyota likely will make a detailed announcement about its turbo strategy in the coming year, partly as a response to Honda's planned turbo push, Ogiso said.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2lO6Ccept
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11-22-13, 08:36 AM
#3
Lexus Champion
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I dont think this will influence Toyota in North America a lot... Lexus certainly with 2.0t, but Toyota not sure. In Europe, that will be interesting.
Currently EuropeanToyota Valvematic engines get better mpg than European turbo's and similar 0-62mph times, but you need to rev them more to get there. And in larger cars especially, or Rav4, thats not that good (our top petrol is 2.0l).
Currently EuropeanToyota Valvematic engines get better mpg than European turbo's and similar 0-62mph times, but you need to rev them more to get there. And in larger cars especially, or Rav4, thats not that good (our top petrol is 2.0l).
11-22-13, 12:19 PM
#7
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only the very few will ever know what a v8 is like in the future.
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11-23-13, 02:51 AM
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Wow sounds excellent! A world first with the cylinder head integrated exhaust manifold design!
So they claim to have eliminated lag without even using any electric assist, most excellent
.
I sure hope not. I hope they still keep some options for at least V6 engines for those of us out there that want NA engines.
So they claim to have eliminated lag without even using any electric assist, most excellent
.I sure hope not. I hope they still keep some options for at least V6 engines for those of us out there that want NA engines.
11-23-13, 05:48 AM
#11
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Days of V6 and V8 for Toyota are probably gone... even if they dont end up having real life MPG gains, EPA gains are important as EPA is going to punish manufacturers that have bad MPG averages... and these EPA standards are getting tough by 2020 (not that far away).
So quite possibly Camry might end up having Turbo 4cly that gets worse mpg and is slower than GR V6, like for instance what Sonata has. I am not so sure that Toyota turbo's will get all the tech as Lexus, after all, cost is very important for Toyota customer.
But for manufacturer important thing is that it will get better EPA MPG on the sticker. And unless EPA finds a way to dramatically change their MPG evaluation, so it is closer to real life, I dont see this trend of "downsizing for worse" changing.
So quite possibly Camry might end up having Turbo 4cly that gets worse mpg and is slower than GR V6, like for instance what Sonata has. I am not so sure that Toyota turbo's will get all the tech as Lexus, after all, cost is very important for Toyota customer.
But for manufacturer important thing is that it will get better EPA MPG on the sticker. And unless EPA finds a way to dramatically change their MPG evaluation, so it is closer to real life, I dont see this trend of "downsizing for worse" changing.
11-23-13, 08:08 AM
#13
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In any case, Subaru is also doing 1.6l 170hp turbo engine... thats going to be great in a lot of their cars, like Impreza and XV.
Not because of fuel consumption compared to 2.0i - i doubt it will be better real life, but engine will have a lot more torque down below and will be a lot more fun in the end. Of couse, it will also cost a lot more.
Right now Subaru and Honda are hurting in Europe (to much smaller extent Toyota as well), because their diesels are too expensive compared to petrols (and vs competition), and small petrols are pretty gutless without a turbo. I dont have a problem with 2.5l 4cly engine, but when you put 2.0l in XV, it is going to be too slow.
As example, here the price difference between Impreza 1.6i and Impreza 2.0D is $15k. And nobody will buy 2.0l petrol in Europe so what happens is that their cars end up being uncompetitive. Same goes for Honda, difference between CIvic 1.4l and 1.6d is $8k.
That does not fly.
On the other hand, Auris 1.33l vs 1.4D - $2.3k difference.
11-23-13, 08:20 AM
#14
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Lots of people claim that but it's simply not true, even on both of our Bimmers there's lag. There's not "lag" in the sense of 1970's/80's era turbo engines where the turbochargers simply wouldn't spool at all below 3000rpm and you had to keep them on boil, but there's definitely lag. The crisp throttle response of a nicely tuned N/A engine isn't there, and you don't pull away from a dead stop at idle with full torque on tap. Cruising around town in 3rd or 4th gear if you suddenly put your foot down when the light ahead turns yellow, the response can be a bit soft also. Physics are physics.
11-23-13, 11:09 AM
#15
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Lots of people claim that but it's simply not true, even on both of our Bimmers there's lag. There's not "lag" in the sense of 1970's/80's era turbo engines where the turbochargers simply wouldn't spool at all below 3000rpm and you had to keep them on boil, but there's definitely lag. The crisp throttle response of a nicely tuned N/A engine isn't there, and you don't pull away from a dead stop at idle with full torque on tap. Cruising around town in 3rd or 4th gear if you suddenly put your foot down when the light ahead turns yellow, the response can be a bit soft also. Physics are physics.
Also, Turbo Charger is not a Gas saver like people think. The more Air, the more Gas. Unless you are driving under the spool limit of the turbo.