How the Koreans are cracking the luxury market
11-21-13, 05:52 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-21-13 at 05:55 PM.
11-21-13, 10:36 PM
#17
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: il
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lol at that headline. Didn't read the article at all, but already know it's another empty Autofail article that's nothing more than a PR fluff piece.
This is the Korean trend, how most Korean companies are operating; gimmicks, flash, and stylized elements over substance, quality, durability, and craftsmanship.
None of the modern Hyundai or Kia products have class-leading interiors. Their interiors are full of flashy, gimmicky styling but quality-wise they still have a lot of econobox elements to them, and fit and finish is average at best. Let's not even talk about craftsmanship or long-term durability.
Yes there are a few Korean companies that make quality products, but they are exceptions, not the trend.
This is the Korean trend, how most Korean companies are operating; gimmicks, flash, and stylized elements over substance, quality, durability, and craftsmanship.
None of the modern Hyundai or Kia products have class-leading interiors. Their interiors are full of flashy, gimmicky styling but quality-wise they still have a lot of econobox elements to them, and fit and finish is average at best. Let's not even talk about craftsmanship or long-term durability.
Yes there are a few Korean companies that make quality products, but they are exceptions, not the trend.
what's your thoughts on current lexus trend then?
obviously you have to compare hyundai to rest of the competition - not luxury brands. let's not kid ourselves here. they are not a luxury brand.
11-21-13, 10:37 PM
#18
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: il
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, that interior is nicely done. i just have a problem with the rear headroom. and they could lose few chromes on exterior. but optima to me one of the best family sedan design offered. don't really care for sonata though.
11-22-13, 04:39 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also can't stand the mischievous and deceitful techniques they've used to grow in the industry over the years.
Well Hyundai compared to their direct mass-market competitor brands doesn't do too well in my eyes. Their styling is far too polarizing for a mass market brand, and their value advantage has almost totally disappeared as their prices have gone up as Hyundai has pushed their profit margin really high. Additionally, their lineup is nowhere near as complete as the major brands (Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Nissan all have more complete lineups).
11-22-13, 05:10 AM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Cedanza's interior looks that of the Optima.
The Korean cars look nice only in the surface from a distance. But their quality is no where near the Japanese brands once you get to fiddle and drive them..
One area which I cannot get over is how extremely flimsy their entire doors are. A massive car like the Santa-fe has a door which weighs and feels like something that belongs on a Dodge Neon.
Their interior quality is also very flimsy and they all have a peeling problem, the plastics have this thin layer that just peels off in a yrs time after some use.
Their entire interiors in general are flimsy, nothing feels solid, substantial and tight. Refinement issues, all their vehicles are consideablly less refined than the competition, perhaps they're better than the big 3 in this respect, not sure.
And another thing I don't like is their overstates power and MPG figures. I mean if they duped the MPG figures then obviously the power and performance figures are easily fudged.
And let's face it they're still not top tier in regards to reliability. JDpower confirms this and the Hyundai-Forums prove this. Go on their board and you'll see that 90% of the threads are about issues with their Hyundai vehicles.
And yeah as mentioned above Hyundai has lost their value proposition. They're getting too greedy too quickly perhaps?
The Korean cars look nice only in the surface from a distance. But their quality is no where near the Japanese brands once you get to fiddle and drive them..
One area which I cannot get over is how extremely flimsy their entire doors are. A massive car like the Santa-fe has a door which weighs and feels like something that belongs on a Dodge Neon.
Their interior quality is also very flimsy and they all have a peeling problem, the plastics have this thin layer that just peels off in a yrs time after some use.
Their entire interiors in general are flimsy, nothing feels solid, substantial and tight. Refinement issues, all their vehicles are consideablly less refined than the competition, perhaps they're better than the big 3 in this respect, not sure.
And another thing I don't like is their overstates power and MPG figures. I mean if they duped the MPG figures then obviously the power and performance figures are easily fudged.
And let's face it they're still not top tier in regards to reliability. JDpower confirms this and the Hyundai-Forums prove this. Go on their board and you'll see that 90% of the threads are about issues with their Hyundai vehicles.
And yeah as mentioned above Hyundai has lost their value proposition. They're getting too greedy too quickly perhaps?
Last edited by yowps3; 11-22-13 at 05:14 AM.
11-22-13, 05:15 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That interior looks like the Optima's interior LOL ^^
The Korean cars look nice only in the surface from a distance. But their quality is no where near the Japanese brands once you get to fiddle and drive them..
One area which I cannot get over is how extremely flimsy their entire doors are. A massive car like the Santa-fe has a door which weighs and feels like something that belongs on a Dodge Neon.
Their interior quality is also very flimsy and they all have a peeling problem, the plastics have this thin layer that just peels off in a yrs time after some use.
Their entire interiors in general are flimsy, nothing feels solid, substantial and tight. Refinement issues, all their vehicles are consideablly less refined than the competition, perhaps they're better than the big 3 in this respect, not sure.
And another thing I don't like is their overstates power and MPG figures. I mean if they duped the MPG figures then obviously the power and performance figures are easily fudged.
And let's face it they're still not top tier when in regards to reliability. JDpower confirms this and the Hyundai-Forums prove this. Go on their board and you'll see that 90% of the threads are about issues with their Hyundai vehicles.
And yeah as mentioned above Hyundai has lost their value proposition. They're getting too greedy too quickly perhaps?
The Korean cars look nice only in the surface from a distance. But their quality is no where near the Japanese brands once you get to fiddle and drive them..
One area which I cannot get over is how extremely flimsy their entire doors are. A massive car like the Santa-fe has a door which weighs and feels like something that belongs on a Dodge Neon.
Their interior quality is also very flimsy and they all have a peeling problem, the plastics have this thin layer that just peels off in a yrs time after some use.
Their entire interiors in general are flimsy, nothing feels solid, substantial and tight. Refinement issues, all their vehicles are consideablly less refined than the competition, perhaps they're better than the big 3 in this respect, not sure.
And another thing I don't like is their overstates power and MPG figures. I mean if they duped the MPG figures then obviously the power and performance figures are easily fudged.
And let's face it they're still not top tier when in regards to reliability. JDpower confirms this and the Hyundai-Forums prove this. Go on their board and you'll see that 90% of the threads are about issues with their Hyundai vehicles.
And yeah as mentioned above Hyundai has lost their value proposition. They're getting too greedy too quickly perhaps?
11-22-13, 05:58 AM
#23
they sell me on the interior alone..who cares about how i look driving..its about how i feel ;P
i would def drive a kia if someone gave me one...haha ALOT of potential
i would def drive a kia if someone gave me one...haha ALOT of potential
Last edited by OKSTANCE; 11-22-13 at 08:49 AM.
11-22-13, 08:09 AM
#24
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: il
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personal preference, I really don't like any of their products, they don't appeal to me.
I also can't stand the mischievous and deceitful techniques they've used to grow in the industry over the years.
Well Hyundai compared to their direct mass-market competitor brands doesn't do too well in my eyes. Their styling is far too polarizing for a mass market brand, and their value advantage has almost totally disappeared as their prices have gone up as Hyundai has pushed their profit margin really high. Additionally, their lineup is nowhere near as complete as the major brands (Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Nissan all have more complete lineups).
I also can't stand the mischievous and deceitful techniques they've used to grow in the industry over the years.
Well Hyundai compared to their direct mass-market competitor brands doesn't do too well in my eyes. Their styling is far too polarizing for a mass market brand, and their value advantage has almost totally disappeared as their prices have gone up as Hyundai has pushed their profit margin really high. Additionally, their lineup is nowhere near as complete as the major brands (Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Nissan all have more complete lineups).
it's 2013, and it's a dog eat dog world. if you hate mischievous and deceitful techniques, you probably should hate ford and most domestic brands too. and who cares about having complete lineups? ask nissan how they are doing with their trucks. and seeing honda completely fail on ridgeline - i'm sure hyundai is like 'thank God, we didn't enter truck market'.
and hyundai is doing more than well if you objectively look at their brand history, sales number, and overall perception of the brand. not too long ago they were still late night joke.
and right now, kia is the most successful case of marketing. nothing compares to their marketing success. thx to david and goliath and their creative geniuses, kia has turned into a legit brand in just few years. kia soul dominates the market. complete domination we have not seen in past few decades. just think about that. I despise the hamster campaign, but you can't help but think what if scion did the hamster with their xB.
Last edited by hlee12; 11-22-13 at 08:14 AM.
11-22-13, 09:00 AM
#25
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personal preference, I really don't like any of their products, they don't appeal to me.
I also can't stand the mischievous and deceitful techniques they've used to grow in the industry over the years.
Well Hyundai compared to their direct mass-market competitor brands doesn't do too well in my eyes. Their styling is far too polarizing for a mass market brand, and their value advantage has almost totally disappeared as their prices have gone up as Hyundai has pushed their profit margin really high. Additionally, their lineup is nowhere near as complete as the major brands (Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Nissan all have more complete lineups).
I also can't stand the mischievous and deceitful techniques they've used to grow in the industry over the years.
Well Hyundai compared to their direct mass-market competitor brands doesn't do too well in my eyes. Their styling is far too polarizing for a mass market brand, and their value advantage has almost totally disappeared as their prices have gone up as Hyundai has pushed their profit margin really high. Additionally, their lineup is nowhere near as complete as the major brands (Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, and even Nissan all have more complete lineups).
11-22-13, 11:15 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
11-22-13, 11:25 AM
#27
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: AL
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed on all points. A friend of mine, former mechanic, used to talk all the time about how Hyundai's newer models have such terrible sheet metal and very poor mechanical construction. He said many newer Hyundai models have major rust problems, as well as long-term reliability issues with rear subframes, not to mention all the issues with their turbo engines.
5yr, 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty
10yr, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty
7yr unlimited mileage rust perforation warranty
Genesis topped the JD Powers ranking for customer satisfaction in 2012 ABOVE Lexus
Your friend is mentioning Hyundai Motors of the late 90's and early 2000's, NOT present day or even the past 5 years.
We get it, you hate Hyundai....
11-22-13, 11:34 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by hlee
kia is the most successful case of marketing. nothing compares to their marketing success. thx to david and goliath and their creative geniuses, kia has turned into a legit brand in just few years. kia soul dominates the market. complete domination we have not seen in past few decades. just think about that. I despise the hamster campaign, but you can't help but think what if scion did the hamster with their xB.
Now, of course, the Soul does have its limitations...though Kia has tried to address some of those with the updated 2014 version. Road noise, powertrain refinement, interior/carpet/seat plushness is on the cheap side and certainly not to luxury-car levels, and it isn't the most comfortable vehicle out there for a relaxed coast-to-coast Interstate run. But, for what it was actually designed for, it excels....and the public knows that.
My brother, BTW, has a 2010 Soul. He fell in love with the design when he first saw it, and I, of course, helped him him find one and shop. He still loves it after three and a half years. The only real problem is the blackish-metallic paint that is a PITA to keep clean...but black is PITA to clean on any car. When I was in the hospital a couple of years ago with heart-surgery, I rode home in the back seat of his Soul. Even for a big guy like (6' 2", 275 lbs), there was plenty of room for me in that cavernous rear seat. The doctors didn't want me sitting up front because of the closeness of my of my patched-up chest to the right-front airbag if it went off for any reason.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-22-13 at 11:38 AM.
11-22-13, 01:50 PM
#29
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: il
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i respectfully disagree. Without the Hamster campaign, Soul do not sell as much especially because it's Kia. You may look beyond the marketing, but many people don't. these ads changes the perception. It will make you to go to dealer. after that it's all up to the product. Without the hamster campaign, awareness will drastically go down. and clearly numbers backup my claim. after the campaign sales number exploded. and this is why brands spend millions on ads.
yes, at the end of the day, it's all about the product. but the product needs help. ads don't make sales. it only helps improving public perception and create public awareness. For ex. remember Isuzu rodeo/trooper campaign in mid 90's? great old goodby silverstein, and partners did the toy store campaign and few other great campaigns on trooper. it instantly made rodeo top seller briefly. but we all know what happened after that.
yes, at the end of the day, it's all about the product. but the product needs help. ads don't make sales. it only helps improving public perception and create public awareness. For ex. remember Isuzu rodeo/trooper campaign in mid 90's? great old goodby silverstein, and partners did the toy store campaign and few other great campaigns on trooper. it instantly made rodeo top seller briefly. but we all know what happened after that.