Jaguar ousts Lexus from atop J.D. Power 2013 Sales Satisfaction Index
11-18-13, 10:53 PM
#16
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11-19-13, 12:01 AM
#17
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I agree that the whole dealership system is very flawed. I wish that manufacturers had more direct control over dealerships, or better yet sold their cars direct to customers.
It's extremely unfair for lower-down dealership workers to get punished or face the consequences of mistakes that are mostly made at the higher up levels. The amount of incompetence, corruption, stupidity I've seen at North American dealerships, as well as a complete disrespect for the vehicles they sell is just mind-boggling. No it's every dealership, but unfortunately far too many dealerships are like that. I don't know the situation overseas, I am merely commenting on the dealerships I've experienced first-hand. Even worse, it's not just mass market dealerships that have these issues, I've seen luxury dealerships with plenty of these problems.
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
I wonder if the automakers realize the fundamental disconnect between dealership principals and themselves. Automakers want to sell cars and make profit yes, but the world's best automakers are highly concerned about their reputation, their brand image, maintaining high customer service and other metrics that are beyond mere profit or revenue. Dealership principals are only in it for one thing; to make profit and lots of it. Most dealership principals don't care at all about the brand they represent or the vehicles they sell. The dealership is a "middle man" between the automaker and the customer. Many problems for both automakers and customers would be solved if cars were sold direct to customers bypassing dealerships. This is why I applaud Tesla's efforts to sell direct to customers and avoid dealerships entirely.
Another interesting example is how the LFA sales process worked; Toyota sold direct to customers and bypassed dealerships entirely. So is this a clue then that Toyota realizes the problems with dealerships?
It's extremely unfair for lower-down dealership workers to get punished or face the consequences of mistakes that are mostly made at the higher up levels. The amount of incompetence, corruption, stupidity I've seen at North American dealerships, as well as a complete disrespect for the vehicles they sell is just mind-boggling. No it's every dealership, but unfortunately far too many dealerships are like that. I don't know the situation overseas, I am merely commenting on the dealerships I've experienced first-hand. Even worse, it's not just mass market dealerships that have these issues, I've seen luxury dealerships with plenty of these problems.
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
I wonder if the automakers realize the fundamental disconnect between dealership principals and themselves. Automakers want to sell cars and make profit yes, but the world's best automakers are highly concerned about their reputation, their brand image, maintaining high customer service and other metrics that are beyond mere profit or revenue. Dealership principals are only in it for one thing; to make profit and lots of it. Most dealership principals don't care at all about the brand they represent or the vehicles they sell. The dealership is a "middle man" between the automaker and the customer. Many problems for both automakers and customers would be solved if cars were sold direct to customers bypassing dealerships. This is why I applaud Tesla's efforts to sell direct to customers and avoid dealerships entirely.
Another interesting example is how the LFA sales process worked; Toyota sold direct to customers and bypassed dealerships entirely. So is this a clue then that Toyota realizes the problems with dealerships?
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 11-19-13 at 12:11 AM.
11-19-13, 06:42 AM
#18
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I agree that the whole dealership system is very flawed. I wish that manufacturers had more direct control over dealerships, or better yet sold their cars direct to customers.
...
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
...
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
Another interesting example is how the LFA sales process worked; Toyota sold direct to customers and bypassed dealerships entirely. So is this a clue then that Toyota realizes the problems with dealerships?
but i agree with you completely that the whole system is screwed up. imagine if airlines and hotels weren't 'allowed' to let you book them directly, but you HAD to go through in person travel agents.
11-19-13, 10:59 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I agree that the whole dealership system is very flawed. I wish that manufacturers had more direct control over dealerships, or better yet sold their cars direct to customers.
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
Another interesting example is how the LFA sales process worked; Toyota sold direct to customers and bypassed dealerships entirely. So is this a clue then that Toyota realizes the problems with dealerships?
One of the big automakers needs to have some courage and take a big step towards having more direct control over the entire sales process.
Another interesting example is how the LFA sales process worked; Toyota sold direct to customers and bypassed dealerships entirely. So is this a clue then that Toyota realizes the problems with dealerships?
11-19-13, 11:58 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
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So then, without dealerships, where are all of those hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of dealership employees/managers going to work? Though not as bad as in the Third World, the unemployment rate in the U.S.has been high for years....and, despite some improvement, is still stubbornly high. You can't sell cars to people who are unemployed or are not making any money.
so if the manufacturers could have their own dealerships, first off they would still employ people, and second, there would still be independent dealers.
and even if car manufacturers somehow chose to deliver from factory to doorstep, 'dealers' would still be servicing facilities, and are not going anywhere. in that case we might lose the retail 'car salesperson' but is that really a loss to society?
11-19-13, 07:47 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by I8ABMR
3 points separate the top three. Id say they are pretty much the same. This is splitting hairs
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-19-13 at 07:51 PM.
11-19-13, 09:24 PM
#22
Pole Position
well said ...I want the 10 years old lexus quality/experience back. I'm speaking here neither as a Lexus fan-boy or non-fan-boy (somewhere in the middle), but, one reason why I think Lexus may have been knocked out of first place in the customer sales-satisfaction survey is that, while the sales people may still be customer-friendly and the dealerships still offering perks, the new Lexus vehcles themselves are not pleasing customers the way they once did. The sales people are (apparantly) still treating customers well at the dealership, but, once they take delivery of their new car and drive it home, the drive home may not be the same magic-carpet experence it was with a new Lexus, say, 10-15 years ago. It may have a rattle/squeak or two in it and/or just not give that pleasant a driving experience like older ones did. So, when they get home and have second thoughts about what they've done, they may (?) have some buyers' remorse. I'm not saying this is widespread, but it's probably more likely to happen today than with Lexus vehicles in the past.
Here again, I suspect it may be the vehicles themselves more than the salespeople. GM salespeople, in general, do not impress me, though the Cadillac salespeople generally wear expensive-looking suits and try to act professional (which, of course, does not guarantee competency). In general, GM salespeople don't seem to be the industry's sharpest, though some of them do try and treat their customers well. On the other hand, buy a new GM vehicle, and, chances are, even after dealing with second-rate salespeople, when you get that new car home, except for a dud here and there like the Cadillac XTS and Buick Encore, you are probably going to be MUCH more satisfied with it than, say, you would have been with a GM product of just a few years ago.
Here again, I suspect it may be the vehicles themselves more than the salespeople. GM salespeople, in general, do not impress me, though the Cadillac salespeople generally wear expensive-looking suits and try to act professional (which, of course, does not guarantee competency). In general, GM salespeople don't seem to be the industry's sharpest, though some of them do try and treat their customers well. On the other hand, buy a new GM vehicle, and, chances are, even after dealing with second-rate salespeople, when you get that new car home, except for a dud here and there like the Cadillac XTS and Buick Encore, you are probably going to be MUCH more satisfied with it than, say, you would have been with a GM product of just a few years ago.
11-19-13, 09:34 PM
#23
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Kudos to Jaguar, but the real test is to maintain the lofty rating with consistency.
11-20-13, 12:22 AM
#24
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Personally i despise upper management, white-collar etc etc. They're a waste of resource. I mean if a certain amount of work could be done in 5 min why take 45 min to complete it? Why do we even need overtime? Yet your typical low worker who actually needs the extra time doesn't even get see a single red penny. Such BS
Of coarse it's all about the money, money, money with the upper people.
Of coarse it's all about the money, money, money with the upper people.
11-20-13, 03:34 AM
#25
that wouldn't happen. compare with apple. they opened a string of highly successful retail stores employing people and stores like best buy, sams, etc., also sell apple products.
so if the manufacturers could have their own dealerships, first off they would still employ people, and second, there would still be independent dealers.
and even if car manufacturers somehow chose to deliver from factory to doorstep, 'dealers' would still be servicing facilities, and are not going anywhere. in that case we might lose the retail 'car salesperson' but is that really a loss to society?
so if the manufacturers could have their own dealerships, first off they would still employ people, and second, there would still be independent dealers.
and even if car manufacturers somehow chose to deliver from factory to doorstep, 'dealers' would still be servicing facilities, and are not going anywhere. in that case we might lose the retail 'car salesperson' but is that really a loss to society?
Did you ever see a discount in Apple store?
First things that happen in factory-owned dealer is discounts get thrown out... including service ones.
Meaning manufacturers get to control the prices and there is no price based competition between the dealers for your services.
I know this because this was the norm in factory owned dealerships in Eastern Europe. The main message from corporate was always to keep the prices at same level and never fight on the pricing front. We were strictly forbidden to sell cars to out-of-town customers and if they found out that we gave discounts to the customers, they would also have monetary punishments for us.
Wake up - USA has the cheapest cars and by far the cheapest service in the world due to dealer system. Here simple oil change on cheapest Yaris is $220 and it is mandated by your friendly Toyota HQ. Not doing oil change at Toyota? No warranty for you.
Same is for every other manufacturer. Hyundai Hungaria got punished by EU $15 million due to same reasons above - they forbade out of town sales and discounts which is against EU consumer laws.
11-20-13, 03:39 AM
#26
Well, unfortunately, "hairs" are what describes today's auto-buisness. The days of vast differences in quality and customer-satisfaction between different autos and auto-brands is gone. Almost all auto companies and their products, today, are reasonably competent and reliable. But Consumer Reports and J.D. Power still have a lot of sway over the general public with their ratings.
If 3x is not enough for you, please continue about sales satisfaction survey.
11-20-13, 04:14 AM
#27
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Well, unfortunately, "hairs" are what describes today's auto-buisness. The days of vast differences in quality and customer-satisfaction between different autos and auto-brands is gone. Almost all auto companies and their products, today, are reasonably competent and reliable. But Consumer Reports and J.D. Power still have a lot of sway over the general public with their ratings.
Cars today have far more problems than ever. Cars today are disposable products. Most cars wont even last 10yrs
02-16-20, 04:01 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
That was in 2014, lol.
Haven't had an issue with an air leak since. I gave her a terrible rating and told them it couldn't be more obvious they're just soaking their customers.
I used the Toyota dealer after that, lol.
02-16-20, 04:08 PM
#30
Competitive engines and modern tech that can go toe to toe with the Germans and I would have stayed with Lexus but sadly it would appear Genesis is the new Lexus these days. There's nothing cutting edge about Lexus cars, even my spouse a non car person is now bored of her 2018 RX350 and can't wait to return it. Mostly likely she'll end up in an X3, since GV80 is too big for us.