2014 Cadillac CTS, CTS V-Sport, reviews, and comparisons
11-08-13, 12:59 PM
#16
Lexus cant have competitor against every model everyone puts out... here people think Lexus should compete with Hyundai and Mercedes at the same time. And in between compete against BMW, Cadillac, Kia, Audi, Jaguar.
It is not really possible.
It is not really possible.
11-08-13, 01:12 PM
#17
I see what you're saying buddy. Bottom line the GS is not even available in a trim to keep up with this caddy. The GS F sport is beneath the V sport caddy and the GSF will be above it and way more expensive.
I would trade leather for a better suspension, electric LSD, and 100+ HP to be honest. I think after some drive the caddy Lexus will lose some customers.
Also the car in the video looked like it had leather or some leatherette . Looked pretty damn good to me .LOL
I would trade leather for a better suspension, electric LSD, and 100+ HP to be honest. I think after some drive the caddy Lexus will lose some customers.
Also the car in the video looked like it had leather or some leatherette . Looked pretty damn good to me .LOL
I can imagine that if Lexus tried to offer 5.7" screen on their $60k car, there would be pitchforks out here... heck, people complain about 7" in base 3IS.
11-08-13, 01:35 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah, I guess you also prefer 5.7" screen of the Caddy and 8 way seats instead of 18. Or 13 speaker bose vs mark levinson? Premium has their double-sunroof, but base has no sunroof at all. A lot of features are missing in base compared to F-Sport... and to get them you pay $10k extra.
I can imagine that if Lexus tried to offer 5.7" screen on their $60k car, there would be pitchforks out here... heck, people complain about 7" in base 3IS.
I can imagine that if Lexus tried to offer 5.7" screen on their $60k car, there would be pitchforks out here... heck, people complain about 7" in base 3IS.
. I personally never cared about how big the nav screen is. Adjustable seats are a joke in reality since they never move. I am 6'5" 300 lbs. The seat goes allllll the way back and all the way down and stays there until the car is sold. I would miss the ML system but the fun of driving would soon leave that complaint behind. I absolutely see where you are coming from but I am trying to get you to see where we are coming from. The issue is we need to meet in the middle. I think Cadillac has done a better job with the CTS overall when it comes to performance and the driving experience ,but each has its own sets of negatives and positives. I just think that the positives of the CTS will outweigh the negatives and it reaches its balance at a higher performance level. Lexus is balanced at a higher level of luxury, BUT not by very much. The buyers will decide what is more important, but by the reaction of the test driver when he got in the CTS it seems like the performance buyers will be moving to Cadillac ( or could be moving )
11-08-13, 01:37 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Turbos, superchargers, naturally aspirated, V Sport, F Sport, real leather, pleather, etc...
It boils down to choice. The real definition of luxury - what it's really about - is choice.
Lexus does a nice job of packaging together what they think people want and will buy, but they still have a long way to go to cater to the consumer who is looking for a truly premium buying experience. This goes well beyond just the dealership experience - where Lexus already excels - and includes boundless options and allowing a buyer to customize a car to their own specs. We need more interior and exterior colors and combinations, more wheel choices and more engines. One gasoline engine and one hybrid just aren't enough to really compete with the others right now, when BMW offers everything from a 528i to an M5 and Cadillac lets you choose from an array of cylinders, displacement and horsepower options.
I think the GS is sadly caught in a catch-22 here: Lexus is hesitant to throw the type of resources and money that is needed to make the GS into a formidable/equal 5/E/A6/CTS competitor because the car has not been historically very successful in terms of sales. On the flip side, perhaps the car isn't successful because it isn't giving buyers the options and choices that they want when plunking down $50-$80k. So what will happen? Lexus will either keep doing just enough to keep the car relevant, and be happy with that; they'll wise up and give us a full-scale GS line with base engines, upscale engines, hybrids, F, F Sport, etc and more choices for options; OR they'll ultimately give up and let the ES rule as Lexus' midsize sedan.
We've already read reports that some within Lexus wanted to cancel this generation of GS but thankfully Akio Toyoda wouldn't let it happen. It's just frustrating to watch the car flounder or live up to be 7/10 of it's potential, generation after generation.
The GS could significantly differentiate itself from the ES just by offering more configurations, options, engines and trim levels. This needs to happen, badly.
I'm not picking on the GS - it's a great car. But it's a great car that competes against the E350 and 535i. There are segments above and below - CTS 2.0T/528i to M5/E63 where Lexus just isn't even playing - and Lexus needs to be there too. There's no question.
/End rant.
It boils down to choice. The real definition of luxury - what it's really about - is choice.
Lexus does a nice job of packaging together what they think people want and will buy, but they still have a long way to go to cater to the consumer who is looking for a truly premium buying experience. This goes well beyond just the dealership experience - where Lexus already excels - and includes boundless options and allowing a buyer to customize a car to their own specs. We need more interior and exterior colors and combinations, more wheel choices and more engines. One gasoline engine and one hybrid just aren't enough to really compete with the others right now, when BMW offers everything from a 528i to an M5 and Cadillac lets you choose from an array of cylinders, displacement and horsepower options.
I think the GS is sadly caught in a catch-22 here: Lexus is hesitant to throw the type of resources and money that is needed to make the GS into a formidable/equal 5/E/A6/CTS competitor because the car has not been historically very successful in terms of sales. On the flip side, perhaps the car isn't successful because it isn't giving buyers the options and choices that they want when plunking down $50-$80k. So what will happen? Lexus will either keep doing just enough to keep the car relevant, and be happy with that; they'll wise up and give us a full-scale GS line with base engines, upscale engines, hybrids, F, F Sport, etc and more choices for options; OR they'll ultimately give up and let the ES rule as Lexus' midsize sedan.
We've already read reports that some within Lexus wanted to cancel this generation of GS but thankfully Akio Toyoda wouldn't let it happen. It's just frustrating to watch the car flounder or live up to be 7/10 of it's potential, generation after generation.
The GS could significantly differentiate itself from the ES just by offering more configurations, options, engines and trim levels. This needs to happen, badly.
I'm not picking on the GS - it's a great car. But it's a great car that competes against the E350 and 535i. There are segments above and below - CTS 2.0T/528i to M5/E63 where Lexus just isn't even playing - and Lexus needs to be there too. There's no question.
/End rant.
11-08-13, 02:47 PM
#20
What Lexus needs is to focus finishing it's core with the upcoming NX and RC before considering more niches like unibody 7-seaters, roadsters, verts, halo, and four door coupe. The lack of equivelant powertrains, features, customization and even lacking vehicles in segments doesn't match quite well, when $1000 difference nets you 100 more hp from the competiton, and Flagship Lines like the S-Class just release the granddaddy of them all S65 AMG.
It'd just be nice to see a little more tit for tat if you know what I mean.
11-08-13, 03:15 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
11-08-13, 03:58 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
SEMA had us busy, not sure about a company car but I will try to get our hands on one when I get back. Happy to say we have developing relationships with GM, particularly the new Stingray for now….
11-08-13, 05:34 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
thank you.
11-08-13, 07:19 PM
#26
Pole Position
If similarly loaded up, feature for feature, as the GS350 F-Sport, the Cadillac V-Sport would be 70K? Thus MT compared a stripper bare bones version of the CTS V-Sport vs a fully loaded GS350 F-Sport in order to get the as-tested-price so close to each other.
Also, the comparison didn't mention if the GS was equipped with the Dynamic Rear Steering option. That would have narrowed the gap. Of course, bumping up the engine hp would have helped lots--no denying that fact.
Essentially though, Motortrend was comparing a V8 equivalent Caddy versus a 6 cylinder GS. I'd be shocked if the result didn't give the win to the CTS V-Sport.
It's equivalent to MT comparing the CTS V-Sport to a BMW 535i M-port, an E-class E350 and an Audi A6 3.0T : the results would be the same...
Last edited by natnut; 11-08-13 at 07:31 PM.
11-08-13, 10:19 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
I didn't realize the base engine was an I-4 good for 272hp.
Then you have the 321hp 3.6
Then the V-sport has a 420hp 3.6, peak hp is 1k RPM down to the non boosted 3.6.
So yes HP to HP the comparison should be to the 321hp 3.6 but that is not offered in V-sport trim.
I think Caddy has what many of us asked for, more hp for the F-sport program. So kudos to Caddy.
The GS needs more engine options….it cannot continue to rely on the single 3.5 ICE which accounts for 95% of sales. The 450h barely sells anything.
Then you have the 321hp 3.6
Then the V-sport has a 420hp 3.6, peak hp is 1k RPM down to the non boosted 3.6.
So yes HP to HP the comparison should be to the 321hp 3.6 but that is not offered in V-sport trim.
I think Caddy has what many of us asked for, more hp for the F-sport program. So kudos to Caddy.
The GS needs more engine options….it cannot continue to rely on the single 3.5 ICE which accounts for 95% of sales. The 450h barely sells anything.
11-09-13, 05:16 AM
#28
Even the V6 CTS is more expensive that similar Lexus V6. Their 4cly turbo has same price as GS350.
Not that I wouldnt like Lexus to have 30 powertrains, but they wont. I think soon enough there will be GS200t, GS300h, GS350, GS450h and GS-F... thats the largest lineup of engines Lexus ever had in the history.
11-09-13, 11:34 AM
#29
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the 450h would sell more if it had awd, heck, they don't even sell rwd s class' in canada. sure the gas mileage suffers, but ppl would be comparing to awd counterparts anyways.
11-09-13, 12:43 PM
#30
yes, of course... but you wouldnt see people telling BMW to get more hp out of 535i to compete with Cadillac.
Even the V6 CTS is more expensive that similar Lexus V6. Their 4cly turbo has same price as GS350.
Not that I wouldnt like Lexus to have 30 powertrains, but they wont. I think soon enough there will be GS200t, GS300h, GS350, GS450h and GS-F... thats the largest lineup of engines Lexus ever had in the history.
Even the V6 CTS is more expensive that similar Lexus V6. Their 4cly turbo has same price as GS350.
Not that I wouldnt like Lexus to have 30 powertrains, but they wont. I think soon enough there will be GS200t, GS300h, GS350, GS450h and GS-F... thats the largest lineup of engines Lexus ever had in the history.
