Official: Toyota FCV (Fuel Cell Vehicle) Thread
04-25-15, 03:05 PM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
And if GM can call the Chevy Volt and Caddy ELR electric vehicles, Toyota (and Ford) should be able to call their hybrids EVs also, since the electric motor always drives Toyota and Ford hybrids.
04-25-15, 04:15 PM
#152
And of course, when you buy Mirai now, you get 3 years of hydrogen for free. So it is free, not $20 or $50
05-05-15, 05:42 PM
#155
Lexus Test Driver
I can't understand why Toyota are pushing the Mirai so much when they could have made better and more practical battery electric vehicles instead. Where outside a small area of Japan are you going to find convenient hydrogen stations? The car is like a Prius with the gasoline engine exchanged for a fuel cell, but the Prius can use gasoline that's available worldwide.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
Last edited by chromedome; 05-05-15 at 05:46 PM.
05-06-15, 06:30 AM
#156
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I can't understand why Toyota are pushing the Mirai so much when they could have made better and more practical battery electric vehicles instead. Where outside a small area of Japan are you going to find convenient hydrogen stations? The car is like a Prius with the gasoline engine exchanged for a fuel cell, but the Prius can use gasoline that's available worldwide.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
05-06-15, 09:44 AM
#157
Lexus Champion
I can't understand why Toyota are pushing the Mirai so much when they could have made better and more practical battery electric vehicles instead. Where outside a small area of Japan are you going to find convenient hydrogen stations? The car is like a Prius with the gasoline engine exchanged for a fuel cell, but the Prius can use gasoline that's available worldwide.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
Hydrogen for transportation has problems at the source and for distribution. It's environmentally unfriendly to source it from reformed hydrocarbons and it's very inefficient to use renewable power for electrolysis when that power could be used to charge BEVs directly. Fusion power (if it ever comes) could generate cheap hydrogen but that power might as well go towards charging batteries. It would take huge amounts of money and time to roll out a global hydrogen distribution network when BEVs can use existing electricity grids. I used to think hydrogen-fueled transport was the future but BEVs have gotten good enough for daily use.
Maybe Toyota actually believes its own BS and squandering its lead in hybrid vehicle design. With the right inverters and electronics, you could power your BEV with your own solar or wind power; you can't do that with a hydrogen car.
Either choice has its advantages and disadvantages. Petroleum is a source of airborne pollution when you use it, but hydrogen is not, so, out on the roads, especially like that crowded highway I was on this morning with all of its idling petroleum-fired engines, hydrogen wins out.
Providing you with the hydrogen can be seen as an infrastructure issue that can be solved given time and money.
05-06-15, 07:39 PM
#158
The Toyota Mirai is a monstrosity
What in the world is this? Who would pay $45-57k for this thing?? They would literally have to pay ME $57k to drive that car. I know looks are subjective but who allowed this to be made??
http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/17/t...-us-northeast/
05-06-15, 11:02 PM
#161
Lexus Champion
Technically, so are regular gas/electric hybrids...the difference, generally being that instead of gasoline (a fossil fuel) being used in the gas engine to generate electricity and recharge the battery, a fuel-cell car generates the electricity with cleaner, zero-emission hydrogen.
05-07-15, 09:51 AM
#162
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One would have to be pretty much insane to pay that much for something that looks like an econobox with an angry fascia. Toyota's design team should be totally fired with this blunder. Didn't they learn from the Prius, which didn't take off until Toyota redesigned that "I paid too much for an Echo" look? People who pay that much for being an early adopter won't want to blend in with an econobox-looking car. They want to stand out and make a statement. They'll get that with the Honda FCV, which is light years ahead in terms of looking properly futuristic and worth the $50k+ asking price if you ask me. It even seats 5!
Last edited by ydooby; 05-07-15 at 04:42 PM.
05-07-15, 11:04 AM
#163
I can't understand why Toyota are pushing the Mirai so much when they could have made better and more practical battery electric vehicles instead. Where outside a small area of Japan are you going to find convenient hydrogen stations? The car is like a Prius with the gasoline engine exchanged for a fuel cell, but the Prius can use gasoline that's available worldwide.
Well, this has been answered many times before... current EV tech right now is not profitable. Toyota thinks they can bring down the price of hydrogen much faster than the cost of batteries... lets also mention that Toyota is biggest producer of car batteries in the world, they sell 1.3m hybrids per year, and invest a lot of money into battery development (probably the most).
Tesla just lost $150m last quarter, thats still with significant "free money" from green credits that are rapidly slowing down... 30% of their sales last quarter came from Norway which just finised with their tax brakes for EVs in April this year. Volt wont be sold in most of the world and new model is actually not going to be sold in most of previous markets (from Australia to Europe). Nissan/Renault sells a lot of EVs but they mostly sell them in market where there are incentives.
Pretty much nobody is making money on these EV sales right now... thats the problem with EVs thats not going to get solved auto-magically.
Even beyond that, there is no EV technology that can power long haul trucks and buses...
So while EVs show a lot of promise, right now and in the future, without some new battery tech, thats not going to be there in next 10 years at least, it is hard to see EVs being the 100% answer for passanger vehicles, let alone trucks and busses.
05-13-15, 10:05 AM
#164
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10 Tidbits About the 2016 Toyota Mirai
http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_10_ti...ota_mirai.html
http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_10_ti...ota_mirai.html
Sampling Toyota's Vision of the Future
The 2016 Toyota Mirai is months away from arriving in U.S. showrooms and until now only a couple staffers have had a chance to drive Toyota’s new fuel cell vehicle. That changed earlier this week when Toyota paid a visit to our office with two Mirai prototypes, giving us the opportunity to kick the tires and get behind the wheel. Here are 10 things we learned from the visit.
Brought to you by Two Decades of Development
Toyota actually began researching fuel cell vehicles around the same time it started developing its hybrid system. The automaker readily admits that fuel cells could overtake hybrids in the future, which is why it is committing to both technologies.
Drives Like a Prius
One thing we quickly observed from the driver’s seat is that operating and driving the Mirai isn’t much different from a Prius. It’s relatively quiet, aside from the occasional muffled noise from the compressor that feeds air into the fuel cell stacks.
Zero Profits For Now
One significant breakthrough was reducing the cost of fuel cell technology by a whopping 95 percent, contributing to the Mirai’s a relatively affordable price of entry. Despite that, Toyota will lose money on every Mirai it sells and will continue to do so for at least a few years, much like it did during the Prius’ infancy.
Carbon Fiber Tanks
The automaker designed a carbon fiber loom that produces the car’s two hydrogen tanks. Toyota is no stranger to carbon fiber looms, as it also developed the loom used for the Lexus LFA.
300-Mile Range
The tanks store five kilograms of hydrogen, and each kg is enough for about 60 miles of range. That gives the Mirai approximately 300 miles of range.
Five-Minute Fill
Refilling those tanks isn’t much different from a car powered by traditional fuels, which means you’ll spend about five minutes at the pump. One of Toyota’s top priorities is to improve and increase hydrogen infrastructure, and it estimates that at least 20 will be operational in California by the end of this year. Toyota’s ultimate goal is to have a station no longer than a six-minute drive away for Mirai customers.
Just in Case
For peace of mind, the Mirai comes with full roadside assistance. Toyota will either send a truck to refill the tank or tow the vehicle to a station.
Why the Long Face?
The Mirai’s mug is definitely polarizing, but those massive air vents do serve an important function. Since the powertrain requires lots of cooling, there are no fewer than five radiators, including two for the fuel cells and one for the electric motor.
Backup Power Generator
The Mirai will be offered with a kit that essentially turns the sedan into a backup generator for your home. The socket is accessible from the trunk and Toyota says the Mirai could power a typical home’s essentials for about a week.
Could be Yours This October
The Mirai is slated to arrive in showrooms this October, starting in California before expanding to other States. For now, Toyota expects to sell 200 by the end of the year. An estimated 3,400 units should be roaming U.S. roads by the end of 2017. The 2016 Mirai will cost $57,500 (before credits) and a leasing program will make the sedan available for $499 a month.
The 2016 Toyota Mirai is months away from arriving in U.S. showrooms and until now only a couple staffers have had a chance to drive Toyota’s new fuel cell vehicle. That changed earlier this week when Toyota paid a visit to our office with two Mirai prototypes, giving us the opportunity to kick the tires and get behind the wheel. Here are 10 things we learned from the visit.
Brought to you by Two Decades of Development
Toyota actually began researching fuel cell vehicles around the same time it started developing its hybrid system. The automaker readily admits that fuel cells could overtake hybrids in the future, which is why it is committing to both technologies.
Drives Like a Prius
One thing we quickly observed from the driver’s seat is that operating and driving the Mirai isn’t much different from a Prius. It’s relatively quiet, aside from the occasional muffled noise from the compressor that feeds air into the fuel cell stacks.
Zero Profits For Now
One significant breakthrough was reducing the cost of fuel cell technology by a whopping 95 percent, contributing to the Mirai’s a relatively affordable price of entry. Despite that, Toyota will lose money on every Mirai it sells and will continue to do so for at least a few years, much like it did during the Prius’ infancy.
Carbon Fiber Tanks
The automaker designed a carbon fiber loom that produces the car’s two hydrogen tanks. Toyota is no stranger to carbon fiber looms, as it also developed the loom used for the Lexus LFA.
300-Mile Range
The tanks store five kilograms of hydrogen, and each kg is enough for about 60 miles of range. That gives the Mirai approximately 300 miles of range.
Five-Minute Fill
Refilling those tanks isn’t much different from a car powered by traditional fuels, which means you’ll spend about five minutes at the pump. One of Toyota’s top priorities is to improve and increase hydrogen infrastructure, and it estimates that at least 20 will be operational in California by the end of this year. Toyota’s ultimate goal is to have a station no longer than a six-minute drive away for Mirai customers.
Just in Case
For peace of mind, the Mirai comes with full roadside assistance. Toyota will either send a truck to refill the tank or tow the vehicle to a station.
Why the Long Face?
The Mirai’s mug is definitely polarizing, but those massive air vents do serve an important function. Since the powertrain requires lots of cooling, there are no fewer than five radiators, including two for the fuel cells and one for the electric motor.
Backup Power Generator
The Mirai will be offered with a kit that essentially turns the sedan into a backup generator for your home. The socket is accessible from the trunk and Toyota says the Mirai could power a typical home’s essentials for about a week.
Could be Yours This October
The Mirai is slated to arrive in showrooms this October, starting in California before expanding to other States. For now, Toyota expects to sell 200 by the end of the year. An estimated 3,400 units should be roaming U.S. roads by the end of 2017. The 2016 Mirai will cost $57,500 (before credits) and a leasing program will make the sedan available for $499 a month.
