Motor

Happy Earth Day.

adpock

Believe it or not, there are folks out there who bemoan hydrogen fuel cell vehicles as B.S. And in this case, they'd be right.

Read the rest on the Club Lexus homepage. >>

RXSF

Really interested to see how the next 5 years plays out. Elon has been so expressive about how hydrogen will not take off (my works, he was much more blunt lol). He says there is no use arguing, as time will show he is right...

JessePS

Cute infomercial

I can't wait to see how Hydrogren and Electric vehicles can handle cold winters.

I just saw that Hyundai is releasing a hydrogen Tucson for 2016, but only in California.

What is impressive, is the rapid refill time for hydrogen, compared to an all-electric vehicle, like a Tesla.

Bring on the future. I am wondering if in say 10-15 years, we will have only two options: Hydrogen and Electric, or will the auto industry just back one?

spwolf

I dont think anything huge will happen in 10 years - you will still have petrols and diesels.... but 25-30 years? Thats when real changes might happen.

So far future looks very diverse. Nobel prize would have to be won if either of these technologies dominates sooner than 20+ years.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think musk is right ultimately... that cars will all be electric, but we're a LONG way from that, and i think toyota is jumping into hydrogen as a hedge bet.

the u.s. has insane amounts of natural gas which could be converted to hydrogen.

i support anything that will lead toward independence from foreign oil!!!!

spwolf

if someone invents battery that is currently not in sight, yes... and FC's are basically EV's with FC as energy storage.

There is no real battery improvement technology coming in the next 10 years... Gigafactory is being built and will be fully operational by 2020, with current battery tech not anything new.... that means that they dont see anything new in sight for more than decade in the future.

And with current technology, it is not possible to use batteries to power larger vehicles, buses and trucks for long haul... so no matter how patient they are, this is simply not on horizon.

Sulu

Fuel cell vehicles are electric vehicles that do not have to be plugged in. They carry their own electricity generating station.

(OK, technically a FC vehicle is probably a hybrid hydrogen-electric vehicle).

And if GM can call the Chevy Volt and Caddy ELR electric vehicles, Toyota (and Ford) should be able to call their hybrids EVs also, since the electric motor always drives Toyota and Ford hybrids.

JessePS

I was checking and it seems to cost about $30-$50 to fill up a hydrogen vehicle at the moment, which is a bit pricey.

It costs about C$7.42 (US$6.09) in Quebec (to get you 400 km or 248 miles) to charge a Tesla Model S if you have the 240V wall connector and dual chargers. Plus if you charge once a week for 4.5 hours it is pretty good or like 39 mins per day. The good thing about having an electric car in Quebec, we have hydroelectric power, which is pretty clean compared to coal power still found in some states (which is decreasing each year). It be interesting if many of the states that are on the coast, would switch to tidal energy for me makes more sense than having wind turbines.

So I guess right now, our best option is all-electric. I am wondering, if they managed to get hydrogen down to $15-$25 to fill up a car, will that be still viable or they need to find a way to get it even cheaper.

If I keep talking about this, it should become its own topic.

RXSF

Not sure why we would need to reduce the price of hydrogen. $50 dollars to drive 300 miles seems pretty spot on compared to gasoline...

Nextourer

But compared to electricity, it's expensive. If it's cheaper than gasoline, then there's the marketable idea that it's cheaper to refuel than a gasoline car (just like marketing a hybrid because it's cheaper to refuel and you go farther on a tank of fuel).

Besides, it didn't use to cost $50 for 300 miles. (and still doesn't depending on vehicle)

spwolf

Hydrogen will likely never be a lot cheaper than that though, that price is likely subsidized.

Point is that it should be able to replace gas vehicle and not EV's. It is EV too.

When it comes to costs, it will never be as cheap as city EV's... while eventually it should be much cheaper to purchase than EV's with 300 mile range, thus being much cheaper overall than 300 mile EV's when you calculate all costs.

Right now, it is great time to buy EVs in countries that heavily subsidize EVs.

spwolf

right now gas is cheap again... so they are saying it is roughly the same price to use as petrol vehicle right now.

If gas prices double, and they will (question is just when), hydrogen vehicles will become much cheaper to use than petrol vehicles... by then, there will be decent infrastructure and costs of the powertrain should be the same as hybrids today.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

really? my car gets 21mpg avg, not great by any means, but let's say 15 gallons for 300 miles. at $2.50 gallon (roughly what it is here) that's $37.50 - a heck of a lot less than $50.

not spot on at all.

RXSF

Well of course it depends on where you are. My understanding is that gas prices in Canada, Hawaii, and everywhere else in the world are higher than the avg gas in the US. Gas prices I saw this morning in my area is $3.89 for premium. With your calculations, that brings fill up cost to $58. I was simply pointing out that $50 dollars to fill up with hydrogen is comparable to gas, so I dont think people would have a problem with that cost. When gas prices sky rocketed to close to $5.00 a gallon a few years ago, filling up cost me more than $70 and we were all still driving.