Trexus

GM is slowly dying. At one time GM was the largest corporation in the whole entire world. At one point GM had so many divisions and brands. Discontinued divisions and brands are:

Oldsmobile
Winston
Welch
Cartecar
Rainier
Oakland
Ewing
Elmore
Rapid Truck
Reliance Truck
Marquette
Peninsular
Scripps-Booth
Samson Tractor
McLauglin
Sheridan
Yellow Coach
Pontiac
LaSalle
Viking
Cleveland Diesel
General Motors Diesel Division
Envoy
Acadian
Beaumont
Ranger
Daewoo
Passport
Geo
Saturn
Hummer
Asüna
Saab

As of current GM is now GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, etc. Maybe the next time GM gets bailed out/restructured they drop GMC and Buick and keep Chevrolet and Cadillac...and eventually if GM doesn't learn their lesson they eventually fade away into the sunset...RIP...

spwolf

I think you are confusing subjective opinion of their cars, with the fact that they are lending money to people with no money... what happens when economic downturn happens? Same thing again.

I did not claim that MY money was involved, and I am not looking at this from personal finances perspective although Lehman brothers failure caused rippling effects throughout the world and my country and personal income was also affected.

This is a global world these days, such large decisions and failures do affect everyone on global scale.

Aron9000

I think some people are missing the big picture with the Chrysler and GM bailouts of 2008-09. If these two companies collapsed, and proceeded into a traditional bankruptcy court, they would've taken every single one of their suppliers into bankruptcy court with them. These are suppliers like NHK, Delphi, Johnson Controls, etc that supply all the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Kia, and Hyundai plants in the USA as well.

If all of those suppliers had declared bankruptcy as well, they would've stopped shipping parts to every single one of those auto companies I listed above. The result of no US government bailouts would have been a catastrophic collapse of the entire United States automotive industry that would have cost tens of millions of jobs. IMO the US government did the right thing by bailing out GM and Chrysler, because, in effect, they bailed out all of GM and Chrysler's suppliers, and indirectly kept all those foreign manufacturers with plants in the US afloat.

gengar

The whole purpose of Chapter 11 bankruptcy is precisely to prevent that situation from happening.

Aron9000

Granted, that is the intent of the law. But with all these lawyers and corporations looking out for their best interests in a complete collapse of a market where everybody files Chapter 11, I would think there would be significant supply chain disruptions that would have made automotive manufacturing in the USA rather difficult.

gengar

Now I am seriously confused. You do realize GM did actually file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy before receiving TARP funds, correct?

There are a plethora of major, household-name companies that have declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy without any of the disruptions that you suggest. A google search will reveal this even if you don't believe me. The "intent of the law" is actually pragmatic in the case of Chapter 11, as often times the best interests of all involved in a failing company - owners, creditors, employees, and consumers alike - are for a going concern rather than liquidation.

LeX2K

There are a finite number of cars sold, those sales would have gone to other auto makers and those cars would have the parts sourced from the OEMs you mention.

nipponbird

The automotive industry in the USA has huge strategic value. Just to name one example, the change over of the American auto plants to weapons production in WWii, is arguably the one single strategic decision that won the war for the Allies. Any government will try to save such an ability, especially the USA who is commited militarily in several regions. So, yes, there is a much bigger picture to consider. Unfortunately a concern like GM has a huge leadership crises that can't be addressed by tax dollars.

J.P.

I guess I don't follow you on this....

My garages have always had a mix of american, Japanese and german cars, I am not a die hard of any brand but Lexus is still a fav.

The Yukon is not worth buying? GM Trucks? Corvette? Camaro? New Impala?

The new Buick brand image is working

Seen the new CTS-V? Escalade? XTS Vsport?

Sorry but GM has taking long strides here and they are on the upswing. I was not a fan of the bailout but I say get over it, its 2015, its in the past, we have an American company creating jobs and investing in manufacturing on our soil whom is also bringing some pretty nice products to markets. At some point if they continue to succeed our country will recoup the $9B in one way or another but hoping they fail will not.

Say what you want, while I love our 4Runner limited, Toyota nor Honda has nothing to compete with the Camaro let alone the Vette. They don't have anything in their truck line up that GM cannot crush.

To say they are not competitive is not accurate. I have been waiting way to long to see a V8 in the GS, thats not competitive if ask me.

I walking into the auto show in 2 weeks hoping to see a damn v8 in the GS for the first time in how many years?

spwolf

nobody is arguing that, it does not matter at all... what matters is that they are financing people with poor credit, just like they did before. So they are creating same situation all over again.

mmarshall

Good post, J.P. Virtually all of what you say here is right on. The only glitch is that I do find the Cadillac XTS somewhat disappointing, though the XTS's general lack of refinement in its road-manners is probably not as much of an issue in the V-Sport version you mention, since V-Sport buyers are usually not looking for DTS-like silkiness in the ride. So, in that sense, you are also correct there.

You say two weeks to the auto show. You going up to Detroit this year? As usual, I'm going to wait for the D.C. show, which starts January 23 and overlaps the last couple days of the Detroit show.

LeX2K

Does this really surprise anyone? GM through their own doing went bankrupt and instead of the market auto correcting and having GM fold or some version of that, they were shoveled billions to stay in business. So what possible incentive would GM have to change? None, if they tank again (which looks inevitable) then hello government money.

mmarshall

GM has already made enormous changes in the last 6-7 years. For one thing, it's about half the size it was, with only four active divisions left instead of eight. It also, because of UAW concessions, now pays its remaining employees about half the hourly rate in some job-classifications than what it once did. Federal money or not, I don't see how you can possibly make the statement that they don't (or didn't) have incentive to change.

spwolf

i am surprised that government is actually letting them do everything all over again.

Once again for other people - GM cars and their quality/design/competitiveness matter not at all. We are talking GM giving credit to people who dont have money. If US goes through another economic downturn, we will have domino effects when GM financing declares bankruptcy again.

mmarshall

Because of what happened in 2008-2009, though, the chances of that actually happening again within most of our lifetimes are very low. It's like getting by-pass heart surgery (I know...I've had it). Once the doctors open your chest up, by-pass your clogged arteries/veins, and graft in brand-new ones, it's usually good for the rest of your life.