Taxpayers Still on the Hook for General Motors' Bailout $9.7B
#31
Moderator
There needs to be a way to let General Motors die without taking the US economy with it. Since the bailout, they have yet to produce any cars worth buying. GM put up nice displays at the Los Angeles Auto Show and Orange County Auto Show which just further confirms that things are business as usual at the company (Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Cruze, Cadillac XTS, etc). GM has made significant improvements since the 1990's but not good enough to compete against what the rest of the world has to offer.
Oldsmobile
Winston
Welch
Cartecar
Rainier
Oakland
Ewing
Elmore
Rapid Truck
Reliance Truck
Marquette
Peninsular
Scripps-Booth
Samson Tractor
McLauglin
Sheridan
Yellow Coach
Pontiac
LaSalle
Viking
Cleveland Diesel
General Motors Diesel Division
Envoy
Acadian
Beaumont
Ranger
Daewoo
Passport
Geo
Saturn
Hummer
Asüna
Saab
As of current GM is now GMC, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, etc. Maybe the next time GM gets bailed out/restructured they drop GMC and Buick and keep Chevrolet and Cadillac...and eventually if GM doesn't learn their lesson they eventually fade away into the sunset...RIP...
Last edited by Trexus; 01-01-15 at 12:18 AM.
#32
I did not claim that MY money was involved, and I am not looking at this from personal finances perspective although Lehman brothers failure caused rippling effects throughout the world and my country and personal income was also affected.
This is a global world these days, such large decisions and failures do affect everyone on global scale.
#33
I think some people are missing the big picture with the Chrysler and GM bailouts of 2008-09. If these two companies collapsed, and proceeded into a traditional bankruptcy court, they would've taken every single one of their suppliers into bankruptcy court with them. These are suppliers like NHK, Delphi, Johnson Controls, etc that supply all the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Kia, and Hyundai plants in the USA as well.
If all of those suppliers had declared bankruptcy as well, they would've stopped shipping parts to every single one of those auto companies I listed above. The result of no US government bailouts would have been a catastrophic collapse of the entire United States automotive industry that would have cost tens of millions of jobs. IMO the US government did the right thing by bailing out GM and Chrysler, because, in effect, they bailed out all of GM and Chrysler's suppliers, and indirectly kept all those foreign manufacturers with plants in the US afloat.
If all of those suppliers had declared bankruptcy as well, they would've stopped shipping parts to every single one of those auto companies I listed above. The result of no US government bailouts would have been a catastrophic collapse of the entire United States automotive industry that would have cost tens of millions of jobs. IMO the US government did the right thing by bailing out GM and Chrysler, because, in effect, they bailed out all of GM and Chrysler's suppliers, and indirectly kept all those foreign manufacturers with plants in the US afloat.
#34
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
#35
Granted, that is the intent of the law. But with all these lawyers and corporations looking out for their best interests in a complete collapse of a market where everybody files Chapter 11, I would think there would be significant supply chain disruptions that would have made automotive manufacturing in the USA rather difficult.
#36
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Granted, that is the intent of the law. But with all these lawyers and corporations looking out for their best interests in a complete collapse of a market where everybody files Chapter 11, I would think there would be significant supply chain disruptions that would have made automotive manufacturing in the USA rather difficult.
Now I am seriously confused. You do realize GM did actually file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy before receiving TARP funds, correct?
There are a plethora of major, household-name companies that have declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy without any of the disruptions that you suggest. A google search will reveal this even if you don't believe me. The "intent of the law" is actually pragmatic in the case of Chapter 11, as often times the best interests of all involved in a failing company - owners, creditors, employees, and consumers alike - are for a going concern rather than liquidation.
#37
Lexus Champion
I think some people are missing the big picture with the Chrysler and GM bailouts of 2008-09. If these two companies collapsed, and proceeded into a traditional bankruptcy court, they would've taken every single one of their suppliers into bankruptcy court with them. These are suppliers like NHK, Delphi, Johnson Controls, etc that supply all the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Kia, and Hyundai plants in the USA as well.
#38
Lead Lap
The automotive industry in the USA has huge strategic value. Just to name one example, the change over of the American auto plants to weapons production in WWii, is arguably the one single strategic decision that won the war for the Allies. Any government will try to save such an ability, especially the USA who is commited militarily in several regions. So, yes, there is a much bigger picture to consider. Unfortunately a concern like GM has a huge leadership crises that can't be addressed by tax dollars.
#39
Boardroom Thug
There needs to be a way to let General Motors die without taking the US economy with it. Since the bailout, they have yet to produce any cars worth buying. GM put up nice displays at the Los Angeles Auto Show and Orange County Auto Show which just further confirms that things are business as usual at the company (Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Cruze, Cadillac XTS, etc). GM has made significant improvements since the 1990's but not good enough to compete against what the rest of the world has to offer.
My garages have always had a mix of american, Japanese and german cars, I am not a die hard of any brand but Lexus is still a fav.
The Yukon is not worth buying? GM Trucks? Corvette? Camaro? New Impala?
The new Buick brand image is working
Seen the new CTS-V? Escalade? XTS Vsport?
Sorry but GM has taking long strides here and they are on the upswing. I was not a fan of the bailout but I say get over it, its 2015, its in the past, we have an American company creating jobs and investing in manufacturing on our soil whom is also bringing some pretty nice products to markets. At some point if they continue to succeed our country will recoup the $9B in one way or another but hoping they fail will not.
Say what you want, while I love our 4Runner limited, Toyota nor Honda has nothing to compete with the Camaro let alone the Vette. They don't have anything in their truck line up that GM cannot crush.
To say they are not competitive is not accurate. I have been waiting way to long to see a V8 in the GS, thats not competitive if ask me.
I walking into the auto show in 2 weeks hoping to see a damn v8 in the GS for the first time in how many years?
#40
I guess I don't follow you on this....
My garages have always had a mix of american, Japanese and german cars, I am not a die hard of any brand but Lexus is still a fav.
The Yukon is not worth buying? GM Trucks? Corvette? Camaro? New Impala?
The new Buick brand image is working
Seen the new CTS-V? Escalade? XTS Vsport?
Sorry but GM has taking long strides here and they are on the upswing. I was not a fan of the bailout but I say get over it, its 2015, its in the past, we have an American company creating jobs and investing in manufacturing on our soil whom is also bringing some pretty nice products to markets. At some point if they continue to succeed our country will recoup the $9B in one way or another but hoping they fail will not.
Say what you want, while I love our 4Runner limited, Toyota nor Honda has nothing to compete with the Camaro let alone the Vette. They don't have anything in their truck line up that GM cannot crush.
To say they are not competitive is not accurate. I have been waiting way to long to see a V8 in the GS, thats not competitive if ask me.
I walking into the auto show in 2 weeks hoping to see a damn v8 in the GS for the first time in how many years?
My garages have always had a mix of american, Japanese and german cars, I am not a die hard of any brand but Lexus is still a fav.
The Yukon is not worth buying? GM Trucks? Corvette? Camaro? New Impala?
The new Buick brand image is working
Seen the new CTS-V? Escalade? XTS Vsport?
Sorry but GM has taking long strides here and they are on the upswing. I was not a fan of the bailout but I say get over it, its 2015, its in the past, we have an American company creating jobs and investing in manufacturing on our soil whom is also bringing some pretty nice products to markets. At some point if they continue to succeed our country will recoup the $9B in one way or another but hoping they fail will not.
Say what you want, while I love our 4Runner limited, Toyota nor Honda has nothing to compete with the Camaro let alone the Vette. They don't have anything in their truck line up that GM cannot crush.
To say they are not competitive is not accurate. I have been waiting way to long to see a V8 in the GS, thats not competitive if ask me.
I walking into the auto show in 2 weeks hoping to see a damn v8 in the GS for the first time in how many years?
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by J.P
My garages have always had a mix of american, Japanese and german cars, I am not a die hard of any brand but Lexus is still a fav.
The Yukon is not worth buying? GM Trucks? Corvette? Camaro? New Impala?
The new Buick brand image is working
Seen the new CTS-V? Escalade? XTS Vsport?
Sorry but GM has taking long strides here and they are on the upswing. I was not a fan of the bailout but I say get over it, its 2015, its in the past, we have an American company creating jobs and investing in manufacturing on our soil whom is also bringing some pretty nice products to markets. At some point if they continue to succeed our country will recoup the $9B in one way or another but hoping they fail will not.
Say what you want, while I love our 4Runner limited, Toyota nor Honda has nothing to compete with the Camaro let alone the Vette. They don't have anything in their truck line up that GM cannot crush.
To say they are not competitive is not accurate. I have been waiting way to long to see a V8 in the GS, thats not competitive if ask me.
I walking into the auto show in 2 weeks hoping to see a damn v8 in the GS for the first time in how many years?
You say two weeks to the auto show. You going up to Detroit this year? As usual, I'm going to wait for the D.C. show, which starts January 23 and overlaps the last couple days of the Detroit show.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-01-15 at 10:56 AM.
#42
Lexus Champion
Does this really surprise anyone? GM through their own doing went bankrupt and instead of the market auto correcting and having GM fold or some version of that, they were shoveled billions to stay in business. So what possible incentive would GM have to change? None, if they tank again (which looks inevitable) then hello government money.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Does this really surprise anyone? GM through their own doing went bankrupt and instead of the market auto correcting and having GM fold or some version of that, they were shoveled billions to stay in business. So what possible incentive would GM have to change? None, if they tank again (which looks inevitable) then hello government money.
#44
Does this really surprise anyone? GM through their own doing went bankrupt and instead of the market auto correcting and having GM fold or some version of that, they were shoveled billions to stay in business. So what possible incentive would GM have to change? None, if they tank again (which looks inevitable) then hello government money.
Once again for other people - GM cars and their quality/design/competitiveness matter not at all. We are talking GM giving credit to people who dont have money. If US goes through another economic downturn, we will have domino effects when GM financing declares bankruptcy again.
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by spwolf
GM cars and their quality/design/competitiveness matter not at all. We are talking GM giving credit to people who dont have money. If US goes through another economic downturn, we will have domino effects when GM financing declares bankruptcy again.