Future of Lexus discussion 2013-2015
10-25-13, 08:29 PM
#31
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I'm most anxious for the new powertrains. I love me some 2GR-FSE, but we need more at this point, and engines like the 4GR need to go.
10-25-13, 09:40 PM
#32
I'd like Lexus to become a true competitor to BMW and Mercedes. In terms of performance, luxury and prestige.
I see a number of gaps to them being able to do this:
1) They need to close the massive gap in power train - the current engine line-up is a joke. Even the new F models are under-powered compared with the AMG and M models. In addition, their power train department needs to over deliver. Recent Lexus models are never under-rated, so the gap on paper is nothing compared with the real-world gap.
2) They need to stop taking short-cuts to make the numbers work. They should build cars to a higher luxury spec than their competitors and not under deliver in places they think customers won't notice. The absence of electric blinds on the sunroof, power operated trunk, surround view cameras, and soft close doors are examples in the current GS line-up. I can't remember all the differences but there were many like that. It left the impression that while this is a nice car, it isn't the equal of the competition but rather engineered to be cheaper than the competition.
3) They need to provide more configurability. You can't have such limited color and leather selections. Look at what BMW is doing scaling the Individual configurations. That is what luxury is about today - creating something special. You can't do that with a Lexus. Here's a pic of my car with it's optional $5000 paint job, $4500 leather and wood upgrades, and $3700 upgraded sound system to illustrate my point. And the M Models don't yet have things like ceramic controls which are coming soon. I was at BMW M Gmbh last week and the guy who is in charge of Individual told me what is coming. They can make door trim out of fish skin and dyed to whatever color you want. They can embroider color logos into the headrests. They are going to take it to another level in the next generation Lexus needs to offer stuff like that too.
4) Styling - They need to not just be bold but also Sexy. The GS was a complete **** up. The IS is beautiful. You can't have this level of randomness. It's almost as if they are doing design by committee.
5) Stop bastardizing F. They killed the F models and launched a bunch of F-Sport variants which are little more than cosmetic packages (since you can buy the enhanced suspension without the F-Sport package). If they want F to be taken seriously they have to come up with the fastest cars on the ring in their class and lead with that. Badge ***** F-Sport later when F is a badge worth whoring out.
Frozen grey paint. Not matte but satin. Looks like it is carved out of metal. White Merino leather with Piano Black wood, and Black alcantara headliner. Drilled Aluminum Bang and Olufsen speaker grilles.
I see a number of gaps to them being able to do this:
1) They need to close the massive gap in power train - the current engine line-up is a joke. Even the new F models are under-powered compared with the AMG and M models. In addition, their power train department needs to over deliver. Recent Lexus models are never under-rated, so the gap on paper is nothing compared with the real-world gap.
2) They need to stop taking short-cuts to make the numbers work. They should build cars to a higher luxury spec than their competitors and not under deliver in places they think customers won't notice. The absence of electric blinds on the sunroof, power operated trunk, surround view cameras, and soft close doors are examples in the current GS line-up. I can't remember all the differences but there were many like that. It left the impression that while this is a nice car, it isn't the equal of the competition but rather engineered to be cheaper than the competition.
3) They need to provide more configurability. You can't have such limited color and leather selections. Look at what BMW is doing scaling the Individual configurations. That is what luxury is about today - creating something special. You can't do that with a Lexus. Here's a pic of my car with it's optional $5000 paint job, $4500 leather and wood upgrades, and $3700 upgraded sound system to illustrate my point. And the M Models don't yet have things like ceramic controls which are coming soon. I was at BMW M Gmbh last week and the guy who is in charge of Individual told me what is coming. They can make door trim out of fish skin and dyed to whatever color you want. They can embroider color logos into the headrests. They are going to take it to another level in the next generation Lexus needs to offer stuff like that too.
4) Styling - They need to not just be bold but also Sexy. The GS was a complete **** up. The IS is beautiful. You can't have this level of randomness. It's almost as if they are doing design by committee.
5) Stop bastardizing F. They killed the F models and launched a bunch of F-Sport variants which are little more than cosmetic packages (since you can buy the enhanced suspension without the F-Sport package). If they want F to be taken seriously they have to come up with the fastest cars on the ring in their class and lead with that. Badge ***** F-Sport later when F is a badge worth whoring out.
Frozen grey paint. Not matte but satin. Looks like it is carved out of metal. White Merino leather with Piano Black wood, and Black alcantara headliner. Drilled Aluminum Bang and Olufsen speaker grilles.
10-26-13, 12:37 AM
#33
Agreed with most of your points.
I believe they will but it's taking some time. Being 5 years since the IS-F's debut it seems there should be more F models by now. RC-F and GS-F are good starts, but those aren't even here yet. Lexus needs to get behind F better. AMG and M are established. F and Cadillacs V still have have a ways to go.
Sums it up nicely. I've been on this "material quality" campaign for a while now it seems. Some of these plastics you see are really just a slap in the face to consumers thinking they're buying a luxury car because of its badge. The lack of equal features like those you mentioned also bring the notion that if you're not fighting fire with fire then it's not the same.
Lexus needs to get on board with customization. If Toyota's plan to make Lexus it's "boutique" then features, options, and customizing are a must. Something to make this already expensive vehicle more special. And for goodness sakes fix the build your own Lexus website.
Styling is subjective, not going to argue that point.
It's true, make F viable then implement F-Sport. I would praise Lexus to do what Cadillac is doing in it's latest and future vehicles. 2014 CTS Base 2.0L turbo 272hp, 3.6L v6 321hp, 3.6L V6 TwinTurbo 420hp VSport, upcoming 6.2L V8 SC 560+hp CTS-V. I would like the GS to offer a whole range from base turbo 4, upgraded V6, twin turbo F-Sport, and lastly full fledged F. There is a Twin Turbo future at Lexus 
Congrats, looks like you did the Euro Delivery?
1) They need to close the massive gap in power train - the current engine line-up is a joke. Even the new F models are under-powered compared with the AMG and M models. In addition, their power train department needs to over deliver. Recent Lexus models are never under-rated, so the gap on paper is nothing compared with the real-world gap.
2) They need to stop taking short-cuts to make the numbers work. They should build cars to a higher luxury spec than their competitors and not under deliver in places they think customers won't notice. The absence of electric blinds on the sunroof, power operated trunk, surround view cameras, and soft close doors are examples in the current GS line-up. I can't remember all the differences but there were many like that. It left the impression that while this is a nice car, it isn't the equal of the competition but rather engineered to be cheaper than the competition.
3) They need to provide more configurability. You can't have such limited color and leather selections. Look at what BMW is doing scaling the Individual configurations. That is what luxury is about today - creating something special. You can't do that with a Lexus. Here's a pic of my car with it's optional $5000 paint job, $4500 leather and wood upgrades, and $3700 upgraded sound system to illustrate my point. And the M Models don't yet have things like ceramic controls which are coming soon. I was at BMW M Gmbh last week and the guy who is in charge of Individual told me what is coming. They can make door trim out of fish skin and dyed to whatever color you want. They can embroider color logos into the headrests. They are going to take it to another level in the next generation Lexus needs to offer stuff like that too.
5) Stop bastardizing F. They killed the F models and launched a bunch of F-Sport variants which are little more than cosmetic packages (since you can buy the enhanced suspension without the F-Sport package). If they want F to be taken seriously they have to come up with the fastest cars on the ring in their class and lead with that. Badge ***** F-Sport later when F is a badge worth whoring out.
Congrats, looks like you did the Euro Delivery?
10-26-13, 12:59 AM
#34
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I just couldn't believe it, but after some persuasive conversation on my part I was able to get some new information. The RX will in fact be a 2015 redesign. However it is slated (though subject to change) end of the year, I suppose to not take away from the NX launch
10-26-13, 03:30 AM
#35
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BMW has wandered away from its roots of building wonderfully balanced lithe and agile sports sedans and have become bloated and overweight. And have resorted to making up for its cars' chassis/suspension/steering deficiencies by the lazy way out : the brute force approach of pumping up horsepower to disguise the fact that its cars start to stumble once you go off a straight line and need to turn the steering wheel.
Already the 2 core RWD models in Lexus line-up : the 2014 IS and 2013 GS possess a superior base chassis to their direct equivalent in BMW's line-up.
Once the new generation Lexus powertrains come online and with the new RC-F/GS-F, BMW can no longer hide behind its hp advantage and can no longer rely on its turbocharged powertrains to keep it ahead of Lexus in driving dynamics.
How strange is it that in 1-2 years' time, BMW will differentiate itself from Lexus, not by being a better driver's car ( that claim went out the window the moment the BMW F10/F30 met face-to-face with the Lexus L10 and X30 chassis) BUT by virtue of being more isolated and coddling ?
I find it deeply instructive that Batman, the proud owner of BMW's flagship M car is boasting NOT about his M5's agility or corner carving ability but about his car's paint job and his car's interior trimmings. That goes to show how far BMW and even M have strayed away from their previous core clientele to go chasing muscle car aficionados with a bigger wallet.
And that's what the F10 M5 has become, isn't it? A German muscle car with a better paint job and an overpriced interior.
BMW M's chassis engineers need to start worrying when MotorTrend praises an AMG E63 as having better steering,better feedback and giving the driver greater confidence when negotiating a mountain road compared to an M5 Competition Package.
Last edited by natnut; 10-26-13 at 03:43 AM.
10-26-13, 08:58 AM
#36
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Rome wasn't built in a day. Lexus is only 25 years young and continues to expand its lineup. Their history is completely different to the German Marques. It's easy to boast what they offer today but 20 years ago their lineups were much smaller with many constraints Lexus has today.
With M going softer and with SUVs etc it ironically is a great time for Lexus to offer lighter more involving cars. We shall see. Even with Lexus offering such cars people will always see the German Marques as superior for a multitude of reasons. It would just be nice for another option for people.
And let's not forget the LFA which they had no answer for. Maybe the SLS and v-10 R8 can be in the conversation but nothing from BMW. So why are we not mentioning the LFA which is now considered one of the all time greats?
In regards to the M5, ITs one of my favorites and offering a manual is just awesome in a world of automatics.
With M going softer and with SUVs etc it ironically is a great time for Lexus to offer lighter more involving cars. We shall see. Even with Lexus offering such cars people will always see the German Marques as superior for a multitude of reasons. It would just be nice for another option for people.
And let's not forget the LFA which they had no answer for. Maybe the SLS and v-10 R8 can be in the conversation but nothing from BMW. So why are we not mentioning the LFA which is now considered one of the all time greats?
In regards to the M5, ITs one of my favorites and offering a manual is just awesome in a world of automatics.
Last edited by LexFather; 10-26-13 at 09:02 AM.
10-26-13, 12:18 PM
#37
So you mean 2015 model year redesign slated for market debut end of next year? That sounds about right to me. If they're going to push it back a few months due to the NX then it makes sense. I expect to see the autoshow debut of the new RX within the next 6 months then.
10-26-13, 12:27 PM
#38
Rome wasn't built in a day. Lexus is only 25 years young and continues to expand its lineup. Their history is completely different to the German Marques. It's easy to boast what they offer today but 20 years ago their lineups were much smaller with many constraints Lexus has today.
With M going softer and with SUVs etc it ironically is a great time for Lexus to offer lighter more involving cars. We shall see. Even with Lexus offering such cars people will always see the German Marques as superior for a multitude of reasons. It would just be nice for another option for people.
And let's not forget the LFA which they had no answer for. Maybe the SLS and v-10 R8 can be in the conversation but nothing from BMW. So why are we not mentioning the LFA which is now considered one of the all time greats?
In regards to the M5, ITs one of my favorites and offering a manual is just awesome in a world of automatics.
With M going softer and with SUVs etc it ironically is a great time for Lexus to offer lighter more involving cars. We shall see. Even with Lexus offering such cars people will always see the German Marques as superior for a multitude of reasons. It would just be nice for another option for people.
And let's not forget the LFA which they had no answer for. Maybe the SLS and v-10 R8 can be in the conversation but nothing from BMW. So why are we not mentioning the LFA which is now considered one of the all time greats?
In regards to the M5, ITs one of my favorites and offering a manual is just awesome in a world of automatics.
10-26-13, 01:22 PM
#39
. . .
New Performance model every year - Lexus recently acknowledged that the competition is relentless in offering performance vehicles in all segments. Lexus plans to combat back with a new model once a year
. . .
And my personal favorite
Twin Turbo V6 and V8's
- Perhaps some of the most exciting news to date and often the topic of debate, Lexus plans to implement Twin Turbo V6's and V8's over the next few years. There are no time tables though 2-4 years is most likely. According to source "these twin turbo mills are supposed to have the best performance and fuel economy numbers vs their competition"
New Performance model every year - Lexus recently acknowledged that the competition is relentless in offering performance vehicles in all segments. Lexus plans to combat back with a new model once a year
. . .
And my personal favorite
Twin Turbo V6 and V8's
- Perhaps some of the most exciting news to date and often the topic of debate, Lexus plans to implement Twin Turbo V6's and V8's over the next few years. There are no time tables though 2-4 years is most likely. According to source "these twin turbo mills are supposed to have the best performance and fuel economy numbers vs their competition"
10-26-13, 02:06 PM
#40
Any news about new transmissions for the performance cars? The 8-speed auto in the IS F (with fast upshifts, torque lock, true manual control and rev-matching down shifts) is the only Lexus transmission that is adequate for performance driving - glad to see it showing up in the F Sport cars this year - but a double-clutch auto-shift manual and / or true manual transmission is really needed for a performance car.
10-26-13, 05:34 PM
#41
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From what I was told the LF-LC debuts a new transmission .....it will be a v-8 hybrid and not use a cvt...
10-27-13, 05:19 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
As I understand it, American-market M5s are the only ones with the conventional three-pedal manual option. The Germans (and those in other countries) overwhelmingly prefer the dual-clutch SMG.
