My Ford Triton Ordeal
10-13-13, 03:19 PM
#1
My Ford Triton Ordeal
Several years go, my dad wanted to purchase a Ford Explorer. We ended up with a 2006 Explorer V8 at a great price. I specifically wanted to avoid earlier models because I read about the spectacular "spark plug ejection" syndrome their 2 valve triton motors had. They redesigned the newer 3 valve Tritons, so we decided on that. What a "redesign".
So a few years later (last week) the truck is nearing 100k miles and is due for a spark plug change. I started reading a bit on the subject and to my chagrin started preparing for the nightmare. The dealer quoted a price of $300 + price of plugs and upto $400 per broken plug. Yes, broken plugs.
In their ingenuity, Ford designed a two piece plug that was coated in copper (going into an aluminum head... morons) that extended the electrode farther into the combustion chamber than usual. So what happens is the plugs seize in the head and carbon builds up on the tip of the plug. When removing, the plugs separate, leaving the electrode tip buried in the head, and the tip usually coated in carbon effectively locking the tip in the combustion chamber.
Luckily a separate company developed a tool to aid in removing it and worked like a charm. But this was the most arduous spark plug change I have ever performed. Ford even has a TSB on the issue. I followed it but ended up breaking 5 out of 8 plugs.
So 5 hours later after 24 hours of prep, new plugs are finally in. New plugs come nickel coated (no longer copper) now and I used copious nickel anti-seize on the electrode shaft as indicated in the TSB.
Way to go Ford... way to go. They finally changed the head design in 2009 to use regular plugs that won't corrode the aluminum head. But from the Triton 2 valve to the Triton 3 valve, it took them way too many years to finally FIX a faulty engineering/design failure. And Detroit wonders why foreign car makers have such a hold on the US market.
So a few years later (last week) the truck is nearing 100k miles and is due for a spark plug change. I started reading a bit on the subject and to my chagrin started preparing for the nightmare. The dealer quoted a price of $300 + price of plugs and upto $400 per broken plug. Yes, broken plugs.
In their ingenuity, Ford designed a two piece plug that was coated in copper (going into an aluminum head... morons) that extended the electrode farther into the combustion chamber than usual. So what happens is the plugs seize in the head and carbon builds up on the tip of the plug. When removing, the plugs separate, leaving the electrode tip buried in the head, and the tip usually coated in carbon effectively locking the tip in the combustion chamber.
Luckily a separate company developed a tool to aid in removing it and worked like a charm. But this was the most arduous spark plug change I have ever performed. Ford even has a TSB on the issue. I followed it but ended up breaking 5 out of 8 plugs.
So 5 hours later after 24 hours of prep, new plugs are finally in. New plugs come nickel coated (no longer copper) now and I used copious nickel anti-seize on the electrode shaft as indicated in the TSB.
Way to go Ford... way to go. They finally changed the head design in 2009 to use regular plugs that won't corrode the aluminum head. But from the Triton 2 valve to the Triton 3 valve, it took them way too many years to finally FIX a faulty engineering/design failure. And Detroit wonders why foreign car makers have such a hold on the US market.
10-14-13, 05:57 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
T0ked, i too have a 2006 explorer v8. 
i'm at 83k mi. and was thinking of getting plugs changed recently, but decided in the end to hold off until 100k as it's running fine.
my master mechanic (great independent shop) told me about the plug challenge.
yeah it's a pain, but they must have seen some benefits when they developed it at the time. if you think that's bad, check out an oil change on many porsches.
apart from that the triton v8 seems to be an incredibly reliable engine.
i'm at 83k mi. and was thinking of getting plugs changed recently, but decided in the end to hold off until 100k as it's running fine.my master mechanic (great independent shop) told me about the plug challenge.
yeah it's a pain, but they must have seen some benefits when they developed it at the time. if you think that's bad, check out an oil change on many porsches.
apart from that the triton v8 seems to be an incredibly reliable engine.
10-14-13, 09:18 AM
#4
Out of Warranty
IF you have plug extraction problems, consider either a head swap with a newer model or installation of Helicoil inserts. Once the property of machine shops, they're still best installed by a machinist although the company now packages them for installation by a mechanic.
Dad bought a new Chrysler outboard motor in 1970, and being an engineer, his training and experience sort of went away for a vacation when a load of new technology was dangled before him. The 70-hp 3-cylinder 2-stroke engine was smooth and powerful, thanks to some highly-advanced engineering for its day. One of the breakthroughs was an aluminum alloy crankcase and head, assembled to dissipate heat quickly through the water jackets, a process common in small automotive engines, but rather new to marine 2-strokes. Another was an advanced electronic ignition that utilized surface-gap spark plugs. The two sort of came together to create a serious problem.
The head, designed for light weight and heat transfer was too soft for the application (plugs were torqued to 15 ft-lbs). The head would be redesigned in the following year, but that first year's production had significant problems: when you removed the plugs you stood a good chance of backing the threads out of the head as well. Since the experimental ignition system quickly fouled plugs at low speed thanks to cold operation, changing plugs was a monthly exercise (remove, clamp in vise, wire brush the "electrodes" and reinstall). Two sets of plugs (one in the engine, one in the toolbox) sufficed for 15 years before he traded the boat. The plugs may have been indestructible, but the head was not. In all that wrenching, after a few seasons, we managed to destroy one plug boss and badly damage another. He removed the head and took it to his favorite machine shop - where all of his former, now retired, machinists worked part time.
While they swapped stories and drank coffee, they reworked the head, drilling out the bosses where the plugs had been, rethreaded and installed Helicoil inserts, internally threaded to accept the plugs. Now these guys were absolute masters of the metalworking craft, with probably a couple hundred years experience between them, and their work was superb. Dad only paid for parts - and I think he replaced their grungy coffee pot. They wouldn't charge him for labor.
That engine performed for another 12 years in our family's hands, before being sold. It never experienced another problem with the plug threads, even though the ignition required monthly plug maintenance. Today, Helicoil has expanded its product line to include a wide range of products and kits for thread repair in exotic metals and polymers. It's worth a look if you bust a stud or tear up a thread in anything expensive.
http://www.helicoil.in/helicoil.htm
Dad bought a new Chrysler outboard motor in 1970, and being an engineer, his training and experience sort of went away for a vacation when a load of new technology was dangled before him. The 70-hp 3-cylinder 2-stroke engine was smooth and powerful, thanks to some highly-advanced engineering for its day. One of the breakthroughs was an aluminum alloy crankcase and head, assembled to dissipate heat quickly through the water jackets, a process common in small automotive engines, but rather new to marine 2-strokes. Another was an advanced electronic ignition that utilized surface-gap spark plugs. The two sort of came together to create a serious problem.
The head, designed for light weight and heat transfer was too soft for the application (plugs were torqued to 15 ft-lbs). The head would be redesigned in the following year, but that first year's production had significant problems: when you removed the plugs you stood a good chance of backing the threads out of the head as well. Since the experimental ignition system quickly fouled plugs at low speed thanks to cold operation, changing plugs was a monthly exercise (remove, clamp in vise, wire brush the "electrodes" and reinstall). Two sets of plugs (one in the engine, one in the toolbox) sufficed for 15 years before he traded the boat. The plugs may have been indestructible, but the head was not. In all that wrenching, after a few seasons, we managed to destroy one plug boss and badly damage another. He removed the head and took it to his favorite machine shop - where all of his former, now retired, machinists worked part time.
While they swapped stories and drank coffee, they reworked the head, drilling out the bosses where the plugs had been, rethreaded and installed Helicoil inserts, internally threaded to accept the plugs. Now these guys were absolute masters of the metalworking craft, with probably a couple hundred years experience between them, and their work was superb. Dad only paid for parts - and I think he replaced their grungy coffee pot. They wouldn't charge him for labor.
That engine performed for another 12 years in our family's hands, before being sold. It never experienced another problem with the plug threads, even though the ignition required monthly plug maintenance. Today, Helicoil has expanded its product line to include a wide range of products and kits for thread repair in exotic metals and polymers. It's worth a look if you bust a stud or tear up a thread in anything expensive.
http://www.helicoil.in/helicoil.htm
10-14-13, 12:50 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
This is why I stick with Japanese cars ( not perfect but much better and they dont screw people who had issues with bad designs).What frustrates me and many people who have owned American cars is that we know they must have been aware of the potential issue but figure they can make more money on repairing the vehicles I guess. No other obvious reason to me other than they just dont care
10-14-13, 04:04 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC/ATL
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was 17 when I 1st started working on cars and came across some weird complicated Ford maintenance jobs, amazed to see they are still at it.
Whatever they can do to build them cheaper, but sadly the cars have some pretty pricey repair/upkeep with higher mileage
Whatever they can do to build them cheaper, but sadly the cars have some pretty pricey repair/upkeep with higher mileage
10-14-13, 08:00 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
I've heard of tons of Ford Tritons with 200-300k+ miles on them. Other than the spark plug issue, it seems to be a solid design.
I'm still partial, however, to the older 351 windsor engine. IMO, it's one of the best engines Ford has ever designed. Ford designed the 351 cleveland to replace it in the 60's, but it couldn't measure up to the windsor, so it was dropped and the windsor stayed until 98. We've got 175k on the one in our F350, and i would hop in and drive across the country without hesitation.
I'm still partial, however, to the older 351 windsor engine. IMO, it's one of the best engines Ford has ever designed. Ford designed the 351 cleveland to replace it in the 60's, but it couldn't measure up to the windsor, so it was dropped and the windsor stayed until 98. We've got 175k on the one in our F350, and i would hop in and drive across the country without hesitation.
Trending Topics
10-14-13, 09:51 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
This is why I stick with Japanese cars ( not perfect but much better and they dont screw people who had issues with bad designs).What frustrates me and many people who have owned American cars is that we know they must have been aware of the potential issue but figure they can make more money on repairing the vehicles I guess. No other obvious reason to me other than they just dont care
as i say, all vehicles have trade-offs. with lexus there's a zillion posts in here about squeaks and creaks and rattles - do you believe they were out to 'screw people' figuring they can make money on repair? no, it was a calculated risk on changing manufacturing methods and cost control. we all know lexus makes awesome vehicles, but like everything else, they're not perfect.
with your LS you happen to drive one of the finest put together vehicles on the planet, so not much point in comparing it to a ford
although frankly i'm still stunned to this day that my 7 year old explorer still has no squeaks and creaks.about the plugs in my v8 explorer... my shop with a ford master tech will have no problem changing out the plugs. it's also pretty cool they only require a change every 100k!
10-14-13, 11:10 PM
#9
I'd change out the plugs way before 100k. The intact plugs looked completely shot. The electrode and strap were so worn, the gap was huge compared to the new plugs. Plus, my engine runs so much smoother and mpgs went way up.
I'm sure any shop won't have an issue getting the plugs out. If I did it, any shop should be able to. It's just a matter of time and cost. I've heard of dealerships not following the TSB snd instead taking an impact wrench to a hot engine. Some report better success, some with similar number of broken plugs, and one guy who had to remove the head after the dealer did it the impact wrench method. It's not a question of whether it can or can't be done. It's about a really dumb design decision.
I also understand the fact that every brand has its faults. But you'd think engineers would realize the issues that would arise by using copper coated plugs in an aluminum head and requiring that ridiculous two piece design. The revised replacement plugs are now properly nickel coated but remain two piece design.
I'm sure any shop won't have an issue getting the plugs out. If I did it, any shop should be able to. It's just a matter of time and cost. I've heard of dealerships not following the TSB snd instead taking an impact wrench to a hot engine. Some report better success, some with similar number of broken plugs, and one guy who had to remove the head after the dealer did it the impact wrench method. It's not a question of whether it can or can't be done. It's about a really dumb design decision.
I also understand the fact that every brand has its faults. But you'd think engineers would realize the issues that would arise by using copper coated plugs in an aluminum head and requiring that ridiculous two piece design. The revised replacement plugs are now properly nickel coated but remain two piece design.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
