Sept 2013 Sales Thread
10-02-13, 12:25 PM
#46
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Do you jump around every month to find a way to beat up the GS? I just did lunch with 5 people..no one complained..the back seat is fine...
So now goalposts changed...used to be all about "Fun to drive" and now its about back seat room now that the GS drives sportiest?
lol
So now goalposts changed...used to be all about "Fun to drive" and now its about back seat room now that the GS drives sportiest?
lol
People in this thread are trying to find a reason behind the fact that the GS sells slower than the competition, and I'm simply offering my observation from the many forums I visit.Just because your passengers didn't complain it doesn't mean they couldn't have been more comfortable had they ridden in the rear of an E or 5. The GS's room may be "adequate" for 5 people, but the competition simply offers more. We all love the 4GS for its new-found sportiness but the rear seat room (mostly in the head room and toe room as well as the least usable middle seat) is still the #1 issue I've seen people bringing up in the other forums when they do comparison shopping.
Last edited by ydooby; 10-02-13 at 12:49 PM.
10-02-13, 12:33 PM
#47
you think power is a problem on the gs350? i have my doubt
for bmw, the 528 has 241hp, and the 535 has 302hp. yup, they are probably underrated but that's what on paper, and not to forget the weight of the car. for mb, the e350 has 302hp as well. (on a very funny look, on bmwusa.com the 5 series weight now says 5100lb. sounds very painful
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx)
the gs350 has 306hp.
so i am not sure if power is a problem on the gs. i personally think it has pretty adequate power. it's a debate that goes on for ages. i won't count on the day the gs sales can get close to the 5 and e, but looking at the gs sales itself, i think it has to do with the es (noticeable), marketing (major), and possible slightly lack of image (debatable). in some way i wonder how the lack of v8 (let alone a true amg / m fighter) has to do with it, not on sales number but from a image / status point of view. don't know the answer to that, but it's in the back of my head
it seems like lexus is trying to push pretty hard on the new IS right now. there are quite a few negative information i don't want to share, but i am interested in seeing how the IS sales number goes in the coming 3 months (basically the first 6 months of sales)
for bmw, the 528 has 241hp, and the 535 has 302hp. yup, they are probably underrated but that's what on paper, and not to forget the weight of the car. for mb, the e350 has 302hp as well. (on a very funny look, on bmwusa.com the 5 series weight now says 5100lb. sounds very painful
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx)the gs350 has 306hp.
so i am not sure if power is a problem on the gs. i personally think it has pretty adequate power. it's a debate that goes on for ages. i won't count on the day the gs sales can get close to the 5 and e, but looking at the gs sales itself, i think it has to do with the es (noticeable), marketing (major), and possible slightly lack of image (debatable). in some way i wonder how the lack of v8 (let alone a true amg / m fighter) has to do with it, not on sales number but from a image / status point of view. don't know the answer to that, but it's in the back of my head
it seems like lexus is trying to push pretty hard on the new IS right now. there are quite a few negative information i don't want to share, but i am interested in seeing how the IS sales number goes in the coming 3 months (basically the first 6 months of sales)
and that's why it should have more HP.Something more than BMW and E.
A plus for Lexus to advertise in the GS.
I never understood how the ES and GS are the same.One is a family sedan and the other a sport sedan.Much higher level trim and more powerful engine.
10-02-13, 12:37 PM
#48
Right, but the real issue with the GS is its interior room, particularly in the rear. Granted the 4GS has improved quite a bit from the 3GS in this regard but so has the competition. Most people buy midsized sedans for practicality, and the GS is simply noticeably more cramped than the E, 5, A6 and, of course, the ES, not to mention that the E, 5 and A6 all have folding rear seats. "Fun to drive" simply isn't high in priority for most people in the real world. Practicality is.
although your theory can possibly explain the lower sales number on the gs vs others, but i honestly think even with more rear room, its sales number would still not be up there with 5 and e. rather i am more focused on the gs sales number from month to month, the quick decline and the inconsistency. if they can consistently do say 1700-2000 units a month, i say they have done it right already.
10-02-13, 12:40 PM
#49
j/kwell, as ydooby pointed out, i think it has a lot to do with size and practicality. lexus is the only one with two variant of about the same size, bmw and mb and audi have to rely on one model for all. from our point of view, of course the cars are very different, but to the majority, as i have experienced, they do just think they are "cars of about the same size"
10-02-13, 12:55 PM
#50
oh come on, the gs already has 4 more hp! j/k
well, as ydooby pointed out, i think it has a lot to do with size and practicality. lexus is the only one with two variant of about the same size, bmw and mb and audi have to rely on one model for all. from our point of view, of course the cars are very different, but to the majority, as i have experienced, they do just think they are "cars of about the same size"
j/kwell, as ydooby pointed out, i think it has a lot to do with size and practicality. lexus is the only one with two variant of about the same size, bmw and mb and audi have to rely on one model for all. from our point of view, of course the cars are very different, but to the majority, as i have experienced, they do just think they are "cars of about the same size"
I'm talking 40 HP.
Henry,having owned both a ES and GS,there is quite a difference in many respects.
However,the design is very similar and tough to tell which is what on the road,though.
10-02-13, 12:59 PM
#51
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but lexus has the es for that (space) already, i think that does give good reason for the gs to go a little different direction.
although your theory can possibly explain the lower sales number on the gs vs others, but i honestly think even with more rear room, its sales number would still not be up there with 5 and e. rather i am more focused on the gs sales number from month to month, the quick decline and the inconsistency. if they can consistently do say 1700-2000 units a month, i say they have done it right already.
although your theory can possibly explain the lower sales number on the gs vs others, but i honestly think even with more rear room, its sales number would still not be up there with 5 and e. rather i am more focused on the gs sales number from month to month, the quick decline and the inconsistency. if they can consistently do say 1700-2000 units a month, i say they have done it right already.
10-02-13, 01:31 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
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they're not the same, but bmw, mb and audi have one midsize sedan so they capture both the family and sport sales in a single model.
we have this discussion every month. lexus has 2 vehicles to do what the other guys do with one. the gs sales are down this month, but that's not surprising after a blow out august, the new IS stealing sales, and likely less incentives on now 'not new' gs.
we have this discussion every month. lexus has 2 vehicles to do what the other guys do with one. the gs sales are down this month, but that's not surprising after a blow out august, the new IS stealing sales, and likely less incentives on now 'not new' gs.
10-02-13, 01:44 PM
#53
To the average buyer, the ES is the same as the GS and a better value. The GS is the inbetweener Lexus, the red headed step child. It's not the sporty one or the practical one or the luxurious one. It's a blend of the three.
10-03-13, 04:58 PM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
you think power is a problem on the gs350? i have my doubt
for bmw, the 528 has 241hp, and the 535 has 302hp. yup, they are probably underrated but that's what on paper, and not to forget the weight of the car. for mb, the e350 has 302hp as well. (on a very funny look, on bmwusa.com the 5 series weight now says 5100lb. sounds very painful http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx)
the gs350 has 306hp.
so i am not sure if power is a problem on the gs. i personally think it has pretty adequate power. it's a debate that goes on for ages. i won't count on the day the gs sales can get close to the 5 and e, but looking at the gs sales itself, i think it has to do with the es (noticeable), marketing (major), and possible slightly lack of image (debatable). in some way i wonder how the lack of v8 (let alone a true amg / m fighter) has to do with it, not on sales number but from a image / status point of view. don't know the answer to that, but it's in the back of my head
for bmw, the 528 has 241hp, and the 535 has 302hp. yup, they are probably underrated but that's what on paper, and not to forget the weight of the car. for mb, the e350 has 302hp as well. (on a very funny look, on bmwusa.com the 5 series weight now says 5100lb. sounds very painful
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx)the gs350 has 306hp.
so i am not sure if power is a problem on the gs. i personally think it has pretty adequate power. it's a debate that goes on for ages. i won't count on the day the gs sales can get close to the 5 and e, but looking at the gs sales itself, i think it has to do with the es (noticeable), marketing (major), and possible slightly lack of image (debatable). in some way i wonder how the lack of v8 (let alone a true amg / m fighter) has to do with it, not on sales number but from a image / status point of view. don't know the answer to that, but it's in the back of my head
More power will not help IMO bec BMW has the 550i and MB has the E550.
But Lexus needs to do something to raise the profile of the GS.
The thing is all the cars in this class are GREAT cars - GS, 5Series, Eclass, A6.
Therefore, its pretty much personal preference. In turn Styling and Image become a HUGE factor. Lexus GS offers almost ZERO customization. Luxury brand should equal options, Lexus gives u regional BS packages.
Before I got my 528i and esp the 535i - I wanted to buy the GS. I contacted all the Lexus dealers in NYC area - no RWD Fsport available. Up to 6months if ordered. No trades with other dealers possible.
BMW - I built the car online, sent the specs to the dealer who then locked in the pricing, 7 weeks later I picked it up. BMW lets u customize almost every option/color/and wood trim if u want.
Most of the ppl on the BMW forums custom order their cars and u can track it online at the BMW site. To me - this adds a ton to the buying experience.
Im not saying this is the answer to the poor sales but in my case it would of been 1 more GS sale.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 10-03-13 at 05:20 PM.
10-03-13, 05:45 PM
#55
Subaru of America, Inc. today reported 31,755 vehicle sales for the month of September, representing the best September sales month in company history. September sales increased 15 percent over September 2012. Year-to-date sales for Subaru total 313,407 – 28 percent higher than the same period in 2012. The company is on track to achieve its fifth-consecutive year of sales increases.
Sales for the all-new 2014 Forester remain strong at 10,620 units, a 75 percent increase over September 2012 and a year-to-date increase of 49 percent. Legacy sedan and Outback crossover were recently rated as “superior” in the new Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) Front Crash Prevention (FCP) test program. The FCP program was created as a result of research by the Highway Loss Data Institute indicating that forward collision warning and automatic braking systems, such as Subaru’s EyeSight system, are helping drivers avoid frontal crashes.
Subaru is still on a roll. They have a big chance with the next-generation Legacy and the new hybrid model of the popular XV to really increase their volume to mid-tier sales levels. They already sell roughly the same as mainstream brand VW and they are on the upward trend while VW is going down.
10-03-13, 06:28 PM
#56
oh come on, the gs already has 4 more hp! j/k
well, as ydooby pointed out, i think it has a lot to do with size and practicality. lexus is the only one with two variant of about the same size, bmw and mb and audi have to rely on one model for all. from our point of view, of course the cars are very different, but to the majority, as i have experienced, they do just think they are "cars of about the same size"
j/kwell, as ydooby pointed out, i think it has a lot to do with size and practicality. lexus is the only one with two variant of about the same size, bmw and mb and audi have to rely on one model for all. from our point of view, of course the cars are very different, but to the majority, as i have experienced, they do just think they are "cars of about the same size"
__
3-Series 182in
5-Series 193in
6-Series Gran Coupe 197in
7-Series 199.8in SWB / 205.3in LWB
CLA-Class 182.3in
C-Class 180in
E-Class 191.7in
CLS-Class 194.5in
S-Class (2014) 201.4in SWB / 206.5in LWB
A3 (2015 Sedan) 175.5
A4 185.2in
A6 193.5in
A7 195.7in
A8 202.2in
XF 195.3in
XJ 201in SWB / 206.6 LWB
IS 183in
ES 192.7in
GS 190.9in
LS 199in SWB / 203.9in LWB
10-03-13, 08:56 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
I've been singing praises about the GS's superiority in chassis engineering in other posts if you haven't noticed. People in this thread are trying to find a reason behind the fact that the GS sells slower than the competition, and I'm simply offering my observation from the many forums I visit.
Just because your passengers didn't complain it doesn't mean they couldn't have been more comfortable had they ridden in the rear of an E or 5. The GS's room may be "adequate" for 5 people, but the competition simply offers more. We all love the 4GS for its new-found sportiness but the rear seat room (mostly in the head room and toe room as well as the least usable middle seat) is still the #1 issue I've seen people bringing up in the other forums when they do comparison shopping.
People in this thread are trying to find a reason behind the fact that the GS sells slower than the competition, and I'm simply offering my observation from the many forums I visit.Just because your passengers didn't complain it doesn't mean they couldn't have been more comfortable had they ridden in the rear of an E or 5. The GS's room may be "adequate" for 5 people, but the competition simply offers more. We all love the 4GS for its new-found sportiness but the rear seat room (mostly in the head room and toe room as well as the least usable middle seat) is still the #1 issue I've seen people bringing up in the other forums when they do comparison shopping.
The RX for example is the sales standard in class. Just b/c the competition doesn't sell as well does not make them all failures. Many are happy with their smaller piece of the pie. The Camry sells best in class that doesn't make the Accord a failure for not outselling it nor the Fusion or Sonata.
Every month the same tired posts and changing of goal posts with the same people over the 4GS like the car is selling like the RLX or M. It is still 3rd in class. How come no one is beating the **** out of the A6 every month? That car offers a FWD, 210hp version at 42k. No one is beating that car up.
Surely Audi and Lexus are happy with their smaller piece and they are WELL AWARE the heavyweights are the 5 and E. Not every car is meant to sell best in class for the billionth time.
I agree completely with your analysis.
More power will not help IMO bec BMW has the 550i and MB has the E550.
But Lexus needs to do something to raise the profile of the GS.
The thing is all the cars in this class are GREAT cars - GS, 5Series, Eclass, A6.
Therefore, its pretty much personal preference. In turn Styling and Image become a HUGE factor. Lexus GS offers almost ZERO customization. Luxury brand should equal options, Lexus gives u regional BS packages.
Before I got my 528i and esp the 535i - I wanted to buy the GS. I contacted all the Lexus dealers in NYC area - no RWD Fsport available. Up to 6months if ordered. No trades with other dealers possible.
BMW - I built the car online, sent the specs to the dealer who then locked in the pricing, 7 weeks later I picked it up. BMW lets u customize almost every option/color/and wood trim if u want.
Most of the ppl on the BMW forums custom order their cars and u can track it online at the BMW site. To me - this adds a ton to the buying experience.
Im not saying this is the answer to the poor sales but in my case it would of been 1 more GS sale.
More power will not help IMO bec BMW has the 550i and MB has the E550.
But Lexus needs to do something to raise the profile of the GS.
The thing is all the cars in this class are GREAT cars - GS, 5Series, Eclass, A6.
Therefore, its pretty much personal preference. In turn Styling and Image become a HUGE factor. Lexus GS offers almost ZERO customization. Luxury brand should equal options, Lexus gives u regional BS packages.
Before I got my 528i and esp the 535i - I wanted to buy the GS. I contacted all the Lexus dealers in NYC area - no RWD Fsport available. Up to 6months if ordered. No trades with other dealers possible.
BMW - I built the car online, sent the specs to the dealer who then locked in the pricing, 7 weeks later I picked it up. BMW lets u customize almost every option/color/and wood trim if u want.
Most of the ppl on the BMW forums custom order their cars and u can track it online at the BMW site. To me - this adds a ton to the buying experience.
Im not saying this is the answer to the poor sales but in my case it would of been 1 more GS sale.
The GS offers one engine, with 306hp and a 338hp hybrid that sells maybe 50 a month in comparison.
Def, + a host of improvements
Not always the case..
__
3-Series 182in
5-Series 193in
6-Series Gran Coupe 197in
7-Series 199.8in SWB / 205.3in LWB
CLA-Class 182.3in
C-Class 180in
E-Class 191.7in
CLS-Class 194.5in
S-Class (2014) 201.4in SWB / 206.5in LWB
A3 (2015 Sedan) 175.5
A4 185.2in
A6 193.5in
A7 195.7in
A8 202.2in
XF 195.3in
XJ 201in SWB / 206.6 LWB
IS 183in
ES 192.7in
GS 190.9in
LS 199in SWB / 203.9in LWB
Not always the case..
__
3-Series 182in
5-Series 193in
6-Series Gran Coupe 197in
7-Series 199.8in SWB / 205.3in LWB
CLA-Class 182.3in
C-Class 180in
E-Class 191.7in
CLS-Class 194.5in
S-Class (2014) 201.4in SWB / 206.5in LWB
A3 (2015 Sedan) 175.5
A4 185.2in
A6 193.5in
A7 195.7in
A8 202.2in
XF 195.3in
XJ 201in SWB / 206.6 LWB
IS 183in
ES 192.7in
GS 190.9in
LS 199in SWB / 203.9in LWB
10-04-13, 09:46 AM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
Its not about the 550 or E550, they sell maybe 200 a month. It is about a 4 cylinder 528 that is a value leader that adds tons of volume. They have had a 4 cylinder 5 series here for quite sometime and it adds SERIOUS volume. Many people don't have peak HP as their main reason for arguing or buying a car. Some want a nice mid-sized 5 series with great MPG and the 528 is a perfect choice.
The GS offers one engine, with 306hp and a 338hp hybrid that sells maybe 50 a month in comparison.
The GS offers one engine, with 306hp and a 338hp hybrid that sells maybe 50 a month in comparison.
I wish i had the data, not sure where to get it.
Btw a 528i is still more expensive than the GS...lease or purchase, not sure if its that much of a value.
Whats your excuse for the Eclass - its one engine as the e550 and e63 make up a tiny % of overall sales just like the GS450h for the GS.
BTW im in agreement its not the lack of power that is the cause of lower GS sales.
Although a v8 and F model would help to raise the GS profile for the average consumer which in turn could increase sales.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 10-04-13 at 09:53 AM.
10-04-13, 10:02 AM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Most 5 series sold are 535i not 528i.
I wish i had the data, not sure where to get it.
Btw a 528i is still more expensive than the GS...lease or purchase, not sure if its that much of a value.
Whats your excuse for the Eclass - its one engine as the e550 and e63 make up a tiny % of overall sales just like the GS450h for the GS.
BTW im in agreement its not the lack of power that is the cause of lower GS sales.
Although a v8 and F model would help to raise the GS profile for the average consumer which in turn could increase sales.
I wish i had the data, not sure where to get it.
Btw a 528i is still more expensive than the GS...lease or purchase, not sure if its that much of a value.
Whats your excuse for the Eclass - its one engine as the e550 and e63 make up a tiny % of overall sales just like the GS450h for the GS.
BTW im in agreement its not the lack of power that is the cause of lower GS sales.
Although a v8 and F model would help to raise the GS profile for the average consumer which in turn could increase sales.
E-class also included coupe/convertible sales.....
I want to say the says used to be broken down in Bimmer mag, not sure they still do it.
10-04-13, 11:12 AM
#60
Def, + a host of improvements
Not always the case..
__
3-Series 182in
5-Series 193in
6-Series Gran Coupe 197in
7-Series 199.8in SWB / 205.3in LWB
CLA-Class 182.3in
C-Class 180in
E-Class 191.7in
CLS-Class 194.5in
S-Class (2014) 201.4in SWB / 206.5in LWB
A3 (2015 Sedan) 175.5
A4 185.2in
A6 193.5in
A7 195.7in
A8 202.2in
XF 195.3in
XJ 201in SWB / 206.6 LWB
IS 183in
ES 192.7in
GS 190.9in
LS 199in SWB / 203.9in LWB
Not always the case..
__
3-Series 182in
5-Series 193in
6-Series Gran Coupe 197in
7-Series 199.8in SWB / 205.3in LWB
CLA-Class 182.3in
C-Class 180in
E-Class 191.7in
CLS-Class 194.5in
S-Class (2014) 201.4in SWB / 206.5in LWB
A3 (2015 Sedan) 175.5
A4 185.2in
A6 193.5in
A7 195.7in
A8 202.2in
XF 195.3in
XJ 201in SWB / 206.6 LWB
IS 183in
ES 192.7in
GS 190.9in
LS 199in SWB / 203.9in LWB