mini ford cuv/suv review...
08-25-13, 08:58 AM
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mini ford cuv/suv review...
so i was driving by my local ford dealer yesterday and decided to stop in to see the range of cuv/suv's they have these days. of course i've read about and seen then on the web and in person, but wanted to do a quick look over the whole range. salesperson was female and patient and informative.
background: i have a 2006 ford explorer limited (rwd) with v8 and about 82k mi. it's been very reliable, smooth (on good surfaces) and quiet.
what i looked at (in range of size
):
c-max, escape, edge, explorer, flex
i skipped the expedition as that's just too huge for my interests/tastes. i did not drive these vehicles, except for the explorer a little over some speed bumps in the parking lot to see how it rode over those (compared to my stiff older body on frame explorer).
one overall take away i got is that ford has done a lot of work to make the interiors on all of these very similar! all but the escape (for some reason) have the single center speedometer with information displays either side. here's an example from the explorer:
i believe the c-max and escape interior's are very similar too, including the center stack.
now onto each:
c-max:
the c-max only comes in hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions so i was expecting space to be eaten by batteries. in the front seat at least, it was just fine. i'm 6'3 and was surprised how comfy/roomy i fit (seat moved back of course). i was also surprised that the cargo space isn't bad in the regular c-max, and of course you can fold the rear seats forward if needed. the plug-in version (which i didn't look at in person) loses a giant amount of depth with the huge (kinda ridiculous) block in the cargo area. outside, the car looks tall, narrow, and not great looking. the rims on the one i saw at least were nice looking though.
escape:
ford's 'mainstream' cuv - the looks are a bit sharper or 'edgier' (ironic, when the ford 'edge' is more like an 'egg'!) and are a mixed bag (to me). it's a 5 seater, and overall, not bad, just as you'd expect - middle of the road.
the interiors on the c-max and escape are very very similar, including a curved painted plastic piece that goes under the park brake and into the center storage box. it looked like it would get scratched if i breathed on it.
edge:
this was ford's attempt to offer something a bit more stylish before the had the newest escape. it's a bit wider and maybe a bit longer than the escape, but otherwise is very similar. the interior was a slight step up from c-max and escape (without that plastic piece).
the edge was also built so a lincoln version could be made, and i also sat in that version, the lincoln mkx. what a difference an upgraded interior makes. felt like an entirely different vehicle. the battery was apparently disconnected on the mkx so i could not test that one's capacitive interface. more on the regular ford 'my touch / sync' in a bit.
one of the edge's i saw is the 'sport' model with 20 (+?) inch wheels, which i did not think were attractive. they have several other wheels though which are nice. the salesperson tried to convince me the sport model was over 2" 'wider' than the other models. i don't think so.
explorer:
coming from my own explorer, this felt familiar but different as well, with of course an entirely different interior. but the biggest difference i noticed is that the hood and cowl are notably higher and in line of sight when you look out. felt a bit like driving a 'ship' than a vehicle, and in that regard, i didn't like it.
many not familiar with ford don't realize how many features they have in some of their vehicles now. a limited explorer can now be had with adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, heated/cooled seats, power lift gate, power folding/stowing/using 3rd row seats, and a whole load more. the flex has an available refrigerated compartment for drinks, etc. all the vehicles had push start/stop.
i don't have the 3rd row seats in my explorer (i didn't want/need them) but apparently now explorers only come with 3 row seating.
i tried the cooling seats feature and believe me you can freeze your stones off it you want to. fortunately it has different levels of cooling and heat!
flex:
the flex is a fwd platform (with available awd) and feels pretty much like a minivan. it's huge inside, very comfortable, and other than that, feels very similar inside to the other vehicles. outside it looks like a giant box, but it sits lower than a typical suv. last year they upgraded the front/rear lighting trim to look more modern, but it still looks a bit funky to me. i have driven one before though, and was surprised how quiet and comfortable and maneuverable it was!
feature wise and interior, it's almost identical to the explorer.
ford my touch / sync.:
all but one of the vehicles i sat in had the higher trim my touch / sync (microsoft) infotainment system. i've seen reports of problems (bugs/crashes/etc.) with this system and was curious to try. ford has apparently been frantically trying to improve it with a recent big software upgrade.
the system has a large (8") screen integrated into a neat center stack also featuring a huge sony controller ****. here's the explorer version:
the explorer has capacitive temp and other controls below the screen. the c-max/escape versions have physical buttons and the screen is more 'mounted':
overall i'd rate my experience with the (explorer's) system a 'D'. touch buttons were slow to respond. voice control was slow and tedious, and seemed like it would take a while to learn exactly what words it would understand, and say them in a way that it would work. of you'd give up and use buttons/screen, but if that's the case, what's the point i?
the voice system wants you to give a category of commands first, like 'climate', then what you want to change, like 'fan' or 'temperature', and then what you want to do 'up', 'down', 70, etc. but almost all the combinations i used didn't work.
again, i think it's weak.
overall:
i'd rate fit and finish high, although i wasn't impressed with the seat leather. i asked if it varied across the models and salesperson said no, except the lincoln was supposedly 'much better'. that was what she said before i went to see it. when i saw it, i was underwhelmed, it had some retro 'piping' along the edges of the seats which didn't impress me.
the leather in my old explorer is not necessarily beautiful, but it's 'heavy duty' (kinda like an f-150) and has stayed looking decent. i'm not sure about what ford's using today though.
the infotainment system was underwhelming and so critical these days that it may be a huge Achilles heel, but it doesn't seem to be stopping ford from selling a ton of 'em. the salesperson even said she's had training in the system and their older reps complained about it, and that she's 'heard' hyundai's uvo system is much easier and friendlier to use.
the fuel economy ratings of these vehicles is pretty class competitive, although ford has been dinged (heavily) for epa ratings which don't come close to reality.
the range of these cuv/suv's is quite impressive, and they're all decent. for me, i'm not really interested in 3 row seating so the flex and explorer probably aren't for me when it comes time to get something else.
background: i have a 2006 ford explorer limited (rwd) with v8 and about 82k mi. it's been very reliable, smooth (on good surfaces) and quiet.
what i looked at (in range of size
):c-max, escape, edge, explorer, flex
i skipped the expedition as that's just too huge for my interests/tastes. i did not drive these vehicles, except for the explorer a little over some speed bumps in the parking lot to see how it rode over those (compared to my stiff older body on frame explorer).
one overall take away i got is that ford has done a lot of work to make the interiors on all of these very similar! all but the escape (for some reason) have the single center speedometer with information displays either side. here's an example from the explorer:
i believe the c-max and escape interior's are very similar too, including the center stack.
now onto each:
c-max:
the c-max only comes in hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions so i was expecting space to be eaten by batteries. in the front seat at least, it was just fine. i'm 6'3 and was surprised how comfy/roomy i fit (seat moved back of course). i was also surprised that the cargo space isn't bad in the regular c-max, and of course you can fold the rear seats forward if needed. the plug-in version (which i didn't look at in person) loses a giant amount of depth with the huge (kinda ridiculous) block in the cargo area. outside, the car looks tall, narrow, and not great looking. the rims on the one i saw at least were nice looking though.
escape:
ford's 'mainstream' cuv - the looks are a bit sharper or 'edgier' (ironic, when the ford 'edge' is more like an 'egg'!) and are a mixed bag (to me). it's a 5 seater, and overall, not bad, just as you'd expect - middle of the road.
the interiors on the c-max and escape are very very similar, including a curved painted plastic piece that goes under the park brake and into the center storage box. it looked like it would get scratched if i breathed on it.
edge:
this was ford's attempt to offer something a bit more stylish before the had the newest escape. it's a bit wider and maybe a bit longer than the escape, but otherwise is very similar. the interior was a slight step up from c-max and escape (without that plastic piece).
the edge was also built so a lincoln version could be made, and i also sat in that version, the lincoln mkx. what a difference an upgraded interior makes. felt like an entirely different vehicle. the battery was apparently disconnected on the mkx so i could not test that one's capacitive interface. more on the regular ford 'my touch / sync' in a bit.
one of the edge's i saw is the 'sport' model with 20 (+?) inch wheels, which i did not think were attractive. they have several other wheels though which are nice. the salesperson tried to convince me the sport model was over 2" 'wider' than the other models. i don't think so.
explorer:
coming from my own explorer, this felt familiar but different as well, with of course an entirely different interior. but the biggest difference i noticed is that the hood and cowl are notably higher and in line of sight when you look out. felt a bit like driving a 'ship' than a vehicle, and in that regard, i didn't like it.
many not familiar with ford don't realize how many features they have in some of their vehicles now. a limited explorer can now be had with adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, heated/cooled seats, power lift gate, power folding/stowing/using 3rd row seats, and a whole load more. the flex has an available refrigerated compartment for drinks, etc. all the vehicles had push start/stop.
i don't have the 3rd row seats in my explorer (i didn't want/need them) but apparently now explorers only come with 3 row seating.
i tried the cooling seats feature and believe me you can freeze your stones off it you want to.
fortunately it has different levels of cooling and heat!flex:
the flex is a fwd platform (with available awd) and feels pretty much like a minivan. it's huge inside, very comfortable, and other than that, feels very similar inside to the other vehicles. outside it looks like a giant box, but it sits lower than a typical suv. last year they upgraded the front/rear lighting trim to look more modern, but it still looks a bit funky to me. i have driven one before though, and was surprised how quiet and comfortable and maneuverable it was!
feature wise and interior, it's almost identical to the explorer.
ford my touch / sync.:
all but one of the vehicles i sat in had the higher trim my touch / sync (microsoft) infotainment system. i've seen reports of problems (bugs/crashes/etc.) with this system and was curious to try. ford has apparently been frantically trying to improve it with a recent big software upgrade.
the system has a large (8") screen integrated into a neat center stack also featuring a huge sony controller ****. here's the explorer version:
the explorer has capacitive temp and other controls below the screen. the c-max/escape versions have physical buttons and the screen is more 'mounted':
overall i'd rate my experience with the (explorer's) system a 'D'.
touch buttons were slow to respond. voice control was slow and tedious, and seemed like it would take a while to learn exactly what words it would understand, and say them in a way that it would work. of you'd give up and use buttons/screen, but if that's the case, what's the point i?the voice system wants you to give a category of commands first, like 'climate', then what you want to change, like 'fan' or 'temperature', and then what you want to do 'up', 'down', 70, etc. but almost all the combinations i used didn't work.
again, i think it's weak.
overall:
i'd rate fit and finish high, although i wasn't impressed with the seat leather. i asked if it varied across the models and salesperson said no, except the lincoln was supposedly 'much better'. that was what she said before i went to see it. when i saw it, i was underwhelmed, it had some retro 'piping' along the edges of the seats which didn't impress me.
the leather in my old explorer is not necessarily beautiful, but it's 'heavy duty' (kinda like an f-150) and has stayed looking decent. i'm not sure about what ford's using today though.
the infotainment system was underwhelming and so critical these days that it may be a huge Achilles heel, but it doesn't seem to be stopping ford from selling a ton of 'em. the salesperson even said she's had training in the system and their older reps complained about it, and that she's 'heard' hyundai's uvo system is much easier and friendlier to use.
the fuel economy ratings of these vehicles is pretty class competitive, although ford has been dinged (heavily) for epa ratings which don't come close to reality.
the range of these cuv/suv's is quite impressive, and they're all decent. for me, i'm not really interested in 3 row seating so the flex and explorer probably aren't for me when it comes time to get something else.
08-25-13, 09:14 AM
#2
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I just got back from a week long trip and rented a Ford Edge for the week.
Overall a very nice vehicle, but yes some visibility issues. It had the standard "non-Touch" Sync system which I thought was simple enough and easy to use and none of the fussiness of the Touch systems. Drove very nicely, hydraulic steering system had decent feel, interior was quiet, suspension was refined and soaked up bumps nicely. It was a great highway cruiser. Was extremely disappointed in the 3.5L V6 though. 290hp or whatever this thing had, never felt weaker. Oh sure it had great power above 4000rpm and would pull hard all the way into redline, but when the heck is anybody driving an EDGE ever going to drive like that? Low-end and mid-range torque and throttle response were ABYSMAL. Around town you have no power for basic maneuvering without a kickdown to 2nd, and on the highway you don't really go anywhere without a full kickdown from 6th to 4th or *3rd*. It was pretty pathetic. Why on earth do they design engines with such pointless powerbands like this? And this isn't just because of my turbocharged Bimmers. I'm comparing it to 240-260hp 3.5L Nissan VQ engines, which had great low-end and mid-range responsiveness. Heck even our 2002 Toyota Highlander with the 3.0L 1MZ-FE and 4AT with a measly 210hp, which I drove to and from the airport, was more responsive on the highway and around town! The EDGE was a dog, and a friend whose rented them also felt the same way. I'm guessing I'd be happier with the 2.0L EcoBoost version, but you can only get that with FWD in the Edge when many would want AWD. My friend told me that the 3.7L in the Lincoln version that he rented once (or EDGE Sport) is a lot better and has a beefier powerband, so that would probably be the way to go for me.
So overall a very nice vehicle, but the powertrain issues would be a deal-breaker for me.
Overall a very nice vehicle, but yes some visibility issues. It had the standard "non-Touch" Sync system which I thought was simple enough and easy to use and none of the fussiness of the Touch systems. Drove very nicely, hydraulic steering system had decent feel, interior was quiet, suspension was refined and soaked up bumps nicely. It was a great highway cruiser. Was extremely disappointed in the 3.5L V6 though. 290hp or whatever this thing had, never felt weaker. Oh sure it had great power above 4000rpm and would pull hard all the way into redline, but when the heck is anybody driving an EDGE ever going to drive like that? Low-end and mid-range torque and throttle response were ABYSMAL. Around town you have no power for basic maneuvering without a kickdown to 2nd, and on the highway you don't really go anywhere without a full kickdown from 6th to 4th or *3rd*. It was pretty pathetic. Why on earth do they design engines with such pointless powerbands like this? And this isn't just because of my turbocharged Bimmers. I'm comparing it to 240-260hp 3.5L Nissan VQ engines, which had great low-end and mid-range responsiveness. Heck even our 2002 Toyota Highlander with the 3.0L 1MZ-FE and 4AT with a measly 210hp, which I drove to and from the airport, was more responsive on the highway and around town! The EDGE was a dog, and a friend whose rented them also felt the same way. I'm guessing I'd be happier with the 2.0L EcoBoost version, but you can only get that with FWD in the Edge when many would want AWD. My friend told me that the 3.7L in the Lincoln version that he rented once (or EDGE Sport) is a lot better and has a beefier powerband, so that would probably be the way to go for me.
So overall a very nice vehicle, but the powertrain issues would be a deal-breaker for me.
Last edited by SteVTEC; 08-25-13 at 09:19 AM.
08-25-13, 10:30 AM
#3
As i've said before, I come from a Ford family and familiar with everything they offer. Other than my IS, I have a 2003 Explorer XLT 4x4 with the ancient 4.0L "Cologne" V6. 100K miles on the clock and still going strong, never had any major issues whatsoever. When the 2011 redesign for the Explorer came out I was excited to see what changed. Obviously a unibody replaced the body on frame, but it gave it a far more composed ride - emergency handling my in 2003 is downright sloppy compared to this new body. Also the new 290hp V6 provides decent acceleration though I would much rather a V8 were still offered. As it's not, the EcoBoost V6 is still a good alternative for those looking for power.
08-25-13, 01:16 PM
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Co-worker and I rented an Exlporer for a week and overall I was impressed. Tons of room, nice materials used, drove well and nice features. Agreed the sync system was a little laggy but it wAsnt that confusing to me. Not sure why it got beat up so bad in reviews, seemed like a very solid SUV to me.
08-25-13, 04:22 PM
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Co-worker and I rented an Exlporer for a week and overall I was impressed. Tons of room, nice materials used, drove well and nice features. Agreed the sync system was a little laggy but it wAsnt that confusing to me. Not sure why it got beat up so bad in reviews, seemed like a very solid SUV to me.
The Edge I just had had the non-touch base system and I thought it was a perfectly good system. The "Touch" system I had last year in an Escape though.... wow what a mess!
08-25-13, 04:38 PM
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Yeah same as what I had in the Edge, which I thought was fine. It's the up-level touch system that comes with or without navigation that's truly terrible. Friends have an Explorer with the Touch system and they think it's terrible also.
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08-25-13, 07:14 PM
#8
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yeah apparently microsoft did the sync system and then ford had the bright idea to take over software development and did the touch system. i think ford's learned it's not easy to write consumer software. 
08-25-13, 07:21 PM
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08-25-13, 08:01 PM
#11
That "MyFordTouch" stuff with the captive touch buttons and big center screen suck donkey ***** IMO. I'd much rather have the basic radio with real buttons they offered a couple years ago and put a garmin gps on the dash if I needed it.
As for all those Fords you drove, I am quite smitten with the box it came in styling of the Ford Flex. Its a sort of very modern take on the old Country Squire wagon, if I were looking for a new(or newer) family hauler, that would be on the top of my list.
As for all those Fords you drove, I am quite smitten with the box it came in styling of the Ford Flex. Its a sort of very modern take on the old Country Squire wagon, if I were looking for a new(or newer) family hauler, that would be on the top of my list.
08-25-13, 08:22 PM
#12
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Nice write-up, Paul. 
Looks like you're doing some serious shopping and comparisons here.
Some of the similiarities you noticed in the dash/gauges between the models are there for cost-cutting and standarization. In the case of the Escape, it is basically the same vehicle that Ford has been selling in Europe for some time, called the Kuga. You'll notice there's no Escape Hybrid with the new 3Gen model. Ford marketers, instead, decided to substitute that version with the new C-Max. Overseas, Ford markets conventional gas and diesel C-Max models (and a smaller B-Max based on the Fiesta). I think it was a mistake not to market the conventional C-Max models here, though I'm not sure that several big Americans could fit into the smaller B-Max.......nor would its engine likely have the power to reasonably haul them. And another big difference between the C-Max and Escape Hybrid (if one was offered) is that the C-Max, unlike the Escape, is not a Cute-Ute. It is essentially a mini-minivan, sort of like the old Mitsubishi Expo/Eagle Summit Wagon/Plymouth Colt Vista of the 1990s (which I'm sure you will remember).
Salespeople, in general, are more honest and knowledgeable than in the past, but there are still some out there that will try to sell ice to an Eskimo. 
Looks like you're doing some serious shopping and comparisons here.Some of the similiarities you noticed in the dash/gauges between the models are there for cost-cutting and standarization. In the case of the Escape, it is basically the same vehicle that Ford has been selling in Europe for some time, called the Kuga. You'll notice there's no Escape Hybrid with the new 3Gen model. Ford marketers, instead, decided to substitute that version with the new C-Max. Overseas, Ford markets conventional gas and diesel C-Max models (and a smaller B-Max based on the Fiesta). I think it was a mistake not to market the conventional C-Max models here, though I'm not sure that several big Americans could fit into the smaller B-Max.......nor would its engine likely have the power to reasonably haul them. And another big difference between the C-Max and Escape Hybrid (if one was offered) is that the C-Max, unlike the Escape, is not a Cute-Ute. It is essentially a mini-minivan, sort of like the old Mitsubishi Expo/Eagle Summit Wagon/Plymouth Colt Vista of the 1990s (which I'm sure you will remember).
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
the salesperson tried to convince me the sport model was over 2" 'wider' than the other models. i don't think so.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-25-13 at 08:41 PM.
08-25-13, 09:14 PM
#13
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08-26-13, 03:43 AM
#14
Nice write up bit. Sounds like you got a real good feel for what they have to offer now and thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
Given those choices and your needs I have to say I have you down for the Edge when you are ready. Enjoy the shopping process, can't wait to see where you stop next.
Given those choices and your needs I have to say I have you down for the Edge when you are ready. Enjoy the shopping process, can't wait to see where you stop next.
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