View Poll Results: Is this the GS F?
Yes
4
66.67%
No
2
33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus GS F sightings (updated pg 20)
12-19-14, 02:00 PM
#481
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No brand loyalty here,I just call it like I see it. Around here the "Bro's" are the M drivers of the 3 series variety. I see maybe one other IS-F a month, usually someone my age, 35+, a respectful wave is exchanged and we go on our way. I guess things must be different out in the "Lovely OC"
12-19-14, 02:34 PM
#482
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Who cares what the competition has done? Why should Lexus judge themselves by the path thats been laid out by BMW and MB? If someone wants a BMW M Car...they aren't going to buy a Lexus F or an MB AMG or anything else...brand loyalty in this arena is huge. What Lexus is doing is creating their own performance division their own way and under their own terms...betting the Lexus enthusiast is there or will be over time. If all you want is a BMW M Car with a Lexus badge, why aren't you just driving a BMW M Car?
I'm not denigrating the S6...I'm just saying its a different car that Audi has done their way. There are plenty of reviews out there that put the S6 below the M5 and E63, there are plenty of reviews that prefer the RC-F to the M4...plenty that prefer the M4 to the RC-F.
The point is, Lexus is telling you what they see as the epitome of what a performance Lexus is. It differs from what BMW and MB are offering as what their epitome of what a BMW or MB is. If it appeals to you great, if it doesn't buy something else. I find the feel and sound of the NA V8 and the easier to drive personality hugely appealing...and thus I would not purchase an M4 over an RC-F or an M5 over a GS-F whether they had more power or not. If you want the power over the NA V8 and the more forgiving feel...go for it.
But the M5 is still a turbo car, still doesn't sound as great, still less rewarding to drive normally (if the M4 vs the RC-F is an indication)...why do I care if the power to weight ratio on paper isn't as good? I'm not a drag racer. I'm driving the frigging thing to work.
I'm not denigrating the S6...I'm just saying its a different car that Audi has done their way. There are plenty of reviews out there that put the S6 below the M5 and E63, there are plenty of reviews that prefer the RC-F to the M4...plenty that prefer the M4 to the RC-F.
The point is, Lexus is telling you what they see as the epitome of what a performance Lexus is. It differs from what BMW and MB are offering as what their epitome of what a BMW or MB is. If it appeals to you great, if it doesn't buy something else. I find the feel and sound of the NA V8 and the easier to drive personality hugely appealing...and thus I would not purchase an M4 over an RC-F or an M5 over a GS-F whether they had more power or not. If you want the power over the NA V8 and the more forgiving feel...go for it.
But the M5 is still a turbo car, still doesn't sound as great, still less rewarding to drive normally (if the M4 vs the RC-F is an indication)...why do I care if the power to weight ratio on paper isn't as good? I'm not a drag racer. I'm driving the frigging thing to work.
And as they should since the S6 is not the M5 and E63 competitor. Merely pointing out that the Audi punches above its weight.
And if all you want to do is drive it to work my get a GS-F? I would get a standard GS350 for something like that.
12-19-14, 02:45 PM
#483
Lexus Fanatic
just like how you had the 535 (iirc) and hated it and now love the gs350, which i respect but doesn't mean everyone understands or agrees. and same thing to some people in rcf forums who are so set on the car that nothing else matters, it's ok and needs no explanation but doesn't mean everything is true.
if you think buyers in the m4/c63/rcf and gsf/e63/m5 and s63/b7/rs8 are all looking at the same perspectives and priorities when shopping their cars, i think that's where the discrepancy is.
Originally Posted by Lexuslvr91
Who cares what the competition has done? Now since when has a company thought that way? There is a difference between a copy cat and a competitive product. I want the GS-F to tear the Germans a new one. I want the GS-F to be better in every possible way it can. Can I not want such things?
And if all you want to do is drive it to work my get a GS-F? I would get a standard GS350 for something like that.
People drive huge SUVs to work too and never take them offroad or carry anybody other than themselves.
Plenty of reasons somebody would buy one of these as a daily driver. They want power, exclusivity, great handling. Maybe they like to throw down on a country road every now and again...but the bottom line is nobody buys any of these for a track car.
12-19-14, 02:57 PM
#484
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I've never had a 535, you're confusing me with somebody else.
When did I say they were?
They've shown they can build a competitive product (the RC-F) and go about doing it in their own way. Why do we automatically assume its going to be different with the GS-F?
I wouldn't buy a GS-F, its just not my kind of car. BUT, 99% of people who own M5s or E63s or whatever just drive them to work. What else are you going to do with them? How many M5 owners do you honestly think take them to the track? You can't drive over 80MPH on a public road...
People drive huge SUVs to work too and never take them offroad or carry anybody other than themselves.
Plenty of reasons somebody would buy one of these as a daily driver. They want power, exclusivity, great handling. Maybe they like to throw down on a country road every now and again...but the bottom line is nobody buys any of these for a track car.
When did I say they were?
They've shown they can build a competitive product (the RC-F) and go about doing it in their own way. Why do we automatically assume its going to be different with the GS-F?
I wouldn't buy a GS-F, its just not my kind of car. BUT, 99% of people who own M5s or E63s or whatever just drive them to work. What else are you going to do with them? How many M5 owners do you honestly think take them to the track? You can't drive over 80MPH on a public road...
People drive huge SUVs to work too and never take them offroad or carry anybody other than themselves.
Plenty of reasons somebody would buy one of these as a daily driver. They want power, exclusivity, great handling. Maybe they like to throw down on a country road every now and again...but the bottom line is nobody buys any of these for a track car.
Last edited by cino; 12-19-14 at 03:01 PM.
12-19-14, 03:16 PM
#485
when you kept on asking me why isf and m3 are in the same game, and rcf and m4 are in the same game, but then why similarly speaking (you did the comparison yourself) a 480hp gsf won't. that only tells me you are trying to apply the same rules from isf and rcf to gsf.
and before you ask, i brought up isf and rcf to indicate that i am not a bmw or mb fanboy by any means and put off lexus cars automatically. i respect both cars and i enjoy them
and before you ask, i brought up isf and rcf to indicate that i am not a bmw or mb fanboy by any means and put off lexus cars automatically. i respect both cars and i enjoy them
12-19-14, 03:25 PM
#486
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I've never had a 535, you're confusing me with somebody else.
When did I say they were?
They've shown they can build a competitive product (the RC-F) and go about doing it in their own way. Why do we automatically assume its going to be different with the GS-F?
I wouldn't buy a GS-F, its just not my kind of car. BUT, 99% of people who own M5s or E63s or whatever just drive them to work. What else are you going to do with them? How many M5 owners do you honestly think take them to the track? You can't drive over 80MPH on a public road...
People drive huge SUVs to work too and never take them offroad or carry anybody other than themselves.
Plenty of reasons somebody would buy one of these as a daily driver. They want power, exclusivity, great handling. Maybe they like to throw down on a country road every now and again...but the bottom line is nobody buys any of these for a track car.
When did I say they were?
They've shown they can build a competitive product (the RC-F) and go about doing it in their own way. Why do we automatically assume its going to be different with the GS-F?
I wouldn't buy a GS-F, its just not my kind of car. BUT, 99% of people who own M5s or E63s or whatever just drive them to work. What else are you going to do with them? How many M5 owners do you honestly think take them to the track? You can't drive over 80MPH on a public road...
People drive huge SUVs to work too and never take them offroad or carry anybody other than themselves.
Plenty of reasons somebody would buy one of these as a daily driver. They want power, exclusivity, great handling. Maybe they like to throw down on a country road every now and again...but the bottom line is nobody buys any of these for a track car.
12-19-14, 04:10 PM
#487
Lexus Champion
That big supercharged v8 aint light. The CTS-V will be a heavy car. The ATS-V is going to be around 3700-3800lbs. The current CTS-V is over 4200lbs. All that power is nice, but lets see the driving dynamics.
12-19-14, 04:17 PM
#488
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Because it is the same Powertrain in two different class of performance vehicles. Imagine the upcoming CTS-V with the same 450 hp 3.6 TT V6 as the upcoming smaller ATS-V albeit with 20-30 more hp. Cadillac would have to dig their own grave if they did such a thing. Instead they are about to debut a CTS-V with a Corvette Z06 sharing 640 hp S/C V8. We can talk and guess about the weight of the GS-F all we want but everyone knows the CTS is one of if not the lightest car in the class with one of the most dynamic platforms (I rank the GS and CTS as the best platforms in the class) of any car in class. The GS-F won't exactly be able to pull the weight card. Again where will that leave the GS-F?
To answer the question. If GS-F comes with 500hp, they should just name it GS500 F whatever because it's not in the same class as M/AMG/V. Once CTS-V is out with 650hp, M5 is not relevant anymore.
12-19-14, 04:23 PM
#489
Just like the M5, AMG and RS6, the 2015 Lexus GS-F will have its pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses.
None of the individual makes and models are truly perfect.
It's just a matter of personal tastes - choosing the make/model with strengths/weaknesses that best suits individual tastes...
None of the individual makes and models are truly perfect.
It's just a matter of personal tastes - choosing the make/model with strengths/weaknesses that best suits individual tastes...
12-19-14, 04:36 PM
#491
Lexus is slow [but thorough] to develop aluminium chassis and small capacity turbos, so for now, the 2016 GS-F will be weak on horsepower, and low on power to weight ratio.
However, the GS-F will have its good points eg styling, chassis, refinement, and reliability etc.
All boils down to personal/individual tastes and wants...
However, the GS-F will have its good points eg styling, chassis, refinement, and reliability etc.
All boils down to personal/individual tastes and wants...
12-19-14, 05:27 PM
#493
is anyone else put-off by the term 'japs'? just me? ok...
anywho...if lexus wants to create their own lane, then thats fine. good luck. but you cant just ignore the highways that have been built by other manufacturers. you usually slot your car into a segment and try to make it an alternative to those purchases. count me in the group that thinks that anything else is excuse making.
and as someone that was brought in under the 'something wicked this way comes' doctrine..its why im on CL, right now...it is frustrating that the 1st V8 that lexus has had in the GS in years...isnt class leading. if its going up against the 550i or the S6 or S550...cool. but this is thought to be going head up with the M/AMG/RS/V variants. thats disappointing.
nostalgia is a who-uh...but thats not how i remember the origins of the GS.
but yeah...if it weighs less than the RCF...which is quite the indictment of the RCF....then ~500 hp is no big deal. we are a car society that feeds off numbers. and you cant have an F...not F Sport...that doesnt fair well against its contemporaries.
but i speak in grunts, eat with my hands and my knuckles drag....
anywho...if lexus wants to create their own lane, then thats fine. good luck. but you cant just ignore the highways that have been built by other manufacturers. you usually slot your car into a segment and try to make it an alternative to those purchases. count me in the group that thinks that anything else is excuse making.
and as someone that was brought in under the 'something wicked this way comes' doctrine..its why im on CL, right now...it is frustrating that the 1st V8 that lexus has had in the GS in years...isnt class leading. if its going up against the 550i or the S6 or S550...cool. but this is thought to be going head up with the M/AMG/RS/V variants. thats disappointing.
nostalgia is a who-uh...but thats not how i remember the origins of the GS.
but yeah...if it weighs less than the RCF...which is quite the indictment of the RCF....then ~500 hp is no big deal. we are a car society that feeds off numbers. and you cant have an F...not F Sport...that doesnt fair well against its contemporaries.
but i speak in grunts, eat with my hands and my knuckles drag....
12-19-14, 06:33 PM
#494
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CTS weight:
2.0T: ~3700 lbs
3.6: ~3800 lbs
3.6 TT: ~4000 lbs
Last gen CTS 3.6: ~4100 lbs
Last gen CTS-V: ~4260 lbs
All of these figures taken from Caranddriver. The Old CTS-V was less than 200 heavier than the standard CTS 3.6 V6. I expect the new CTS-V to weigh in about 200 lbs heavier than the standard 3.6 V6 at around 4000 lbs keeping the roughly 400 lb difference between the CTS and its BMW 5-Series match mates. And if Cadillac is going to use carbon fibre and other weight saving components and composites then I expect even less weight difference. The CTS V-Sport outhandles nearly all of the cars in its class courtesy of GMs magical MagneRide shocks and Electronic rear differential.
Last edited by Lexuslvr91; 12-19-14 at 06:40 PM.
12-19-14, 06:35 PM
#495
Lexus Test Driver
Let me first say this - out of cars I can realistically afford BMW and Lexus are my favorite Brands.
I spend time on forums for both and try to be objective.
There is not a lot of respect from the enthusiast community for Lexus and I feel its deserved to a certain extent. Lexus really hasn't done crap for Enthusiasts period. Aftermarket is non-existent as well because the cars (ecu) are NOT "mod" friendly.
The RCF and especially RC forums are pretty dead with not too many owners.
Not sure why that is bec RCF is a GREAT car but lot of ppl still have the old perception of Lexus.
In order to change that and for F brand to actually carry Performance Equity/Respect from enthusiast community - Lexus CANNOT bring a GSF with 500hp when ALL of their competitor are over 550hp.
Besides the German 3, u gotta deal with Cadillac, Maserati, Porsche, even Tesla.
Lexus got to go at it fully or just bring it out as regular GS500 Fsport, which I feel is the proper way to go.
I spend time on forums for both and try to be objective.
There is not a lot of respect from the enthusiast community for Lexus and I feel its deserved to a certain extent. Lexus really hasn't done crap for Enthusiasts period. Aftermarket is non-existent as well because the cars (ecu) are NOT "mod" friendly.
The RCF and especially RC forums are pretty dead with not too many owners.
Not sure why that is bec RCF is a GREAT car but lot of ppl still have the old perception of Lexus.
In order to change that and for F brand to actually carry Performance Equity/Respect from enthusiast community - Lexus CANNOT bring a GSF with 500hp when ALL of their competitor are over 550hp.
Besides the German 3, u gotta deal with Cadillac, Maserati, Porsche, even Tesla.
Lexus got to go at it fully or just bring it out as regular GS500 Fsport, which I feel is the proper way to go.
