RNM GS3

Lexus = Toyota
Lexus itself makes no decisions.

The Lexus brand is 25 yrs old correct but Toyota is one the oldest car manufacturers, so I dont buy that excuse at all.

Toyota produced performance cars way before Lexus existed.
They definitely have the engineering expertise.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

No, I was not talking about performance. Ever since Lexus came out, Toyota only cared about strengthening the luxury aspect of the brand, so that the brand could better compete with the BMW and Mercedes. I think Lexus did pretty good in terms of beating Germans in the luxury department? The performance side of Lexus however, is still in the infant stage. What we are witnessing now is the next step in Lexus history. Will it be successful? I guess the time will tell.

SW17LS

Thats just not how Toyota does business. They're not a manufacturer that builds 650hp scream machines...they just aren't. They're conservative, very slow to change. Expecting them to be anything other than what they are is just going to make you crazy.

And they've developed a new 5.0L NA V8 that will be the basis for more powerful engines that will find their way into those models...

As for the LS600hL, thats a product of their focus and investment in hybrids, something they'd been focused on for many years before. Performance engines like these are a new focus for the company

You guys are so negative...trying to talk about Lexus on ClubLexus has gotten worse than trying to talk about Lexus on competitors forums.

Gojirra99

LOL it is Lexus that cause the negativity if there is any , nobody is negative when they announce they are going to produce the LF-LC concept, everyone rejoice that they are finally giving us another high end coupe.
Nobody really complains when the RC -F gets more hp than M3/M4 , which at least made up for the higher weight and proved capable of very close performance. We rejoice when we see them make what we see as the right moves.
This is not a Lexus yes man forum , constructive criticism is always welcome , this is call feedback and is actually helpful to Lexus since they do have people reading the forums. Feedback does NOT mean yes yes yes good good good all the time, that would be totally useless

obturator

Hear! Hear! And BMW gets more praise here than on their own forums. LOL.

Vladi

As far as the Lexus + engines goes they got one thing right and one thing wrong.

Having a V8 for performance models only is the way to go. Even the germans got it right by refusing to offer small displacement turbo V8s on their regular models, heck not even on their SUVs. True V8 is still alive and kicking in flagship sedans and coupes but I couldn't give a crap if Lexus decides not to pursue V8 for next LS and instead of with the V6 hybrid route for the base model. Its easy for me to say this now but I never understood the appeal of non race bred V8 in a luxury sedan. Maybe that's because I really grew up in 2000s when V6 engines like Toyota GR started showing up with equal horsepower of old V8s while being a lot better efficient To me Acura had it right all along while being ridiculed. GSh and RLX SH/SH-AWD are the future.

What Lexus doesn't do right is the proper engine replacement/update cycle. Having and awesome engine is great but having that same engines for two generations is way too much. Yes its reliable but all the initial benefits slip away after half a decade let a lone after a whole decade.

SW17LS

We must be reading different forums. Even after the specs of the RC-F came out, all people did was tear it down vs the M4 because it was "too heavy". Here we have people already decrying the GS-F as not being powerful enough....when nobody knows how much power it will have.

Wait until the LF-LC concept gets closer to being reality...the negativity will come. Its always there, and its always from the same few people.

Its not about being a yes man forum, but its not unreasonable to want as an enthusiast a place to talk about the brand that in general is positive about the brand. I deliver my share of criticism about pain points for me, interior material quality being a big one. You'd expect that people would be inclined to give Lexus the benefit of the doubt though.

This happened about the 3IS, it happened about the RC especially the RC-F and its happening about the GS-F. Discussions get taken over by the same few people harping on the same few issues that are important to them and it gets old for those of us who would like to have a positive, anticipatory discussion about the car. It got to the point in the 3IS forum where nobody could post a positive review without getting torn apart like this was a BMW forum. Which is totally unfair on ClubLexus. Its not ClubCars, its not ClubBMW its ClubLexus.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to drag a thread off track but I'm a happy 4GS owner, I'm excited about the GS-F, I want to have a positive conversation with other Lexus enthusiasts about the car but all I hear is "It doesn't have enough power, its going to be too heavy, Lexus is kidding themselves if they think this car is going to be worthwhile"...its constant, from the same people, and its exhausting. If you want Lexus to build cars that create real enthusiasts of the brand...try and present a forum thats enthusiastic about the brand. How can you expect enthusiasts of other brands to take Lexus seriously if its own enthusiasts don't?

gyrase321

+1 Agree with this.

RNM GS3

Based on your current vehicle GS luxury and past ES cars, and also some of your posts - Luxury to you is more important than performance.

You don't strike me as an enthusiast that tracks/modifies cars which is fine for you.

But there a NUMBER of Lexus fans that want Performance to be a priority or they love to modify their cars, etc. For ppl like that Lexus is a HUGE disappointment in many ways.

I was on these forums when Ltuned GS and IS parts were all the rage but Lexus killed it.
Then they came out with an attempt at Fsport accessories for 2IS and 3GS......
For 4GS they killed Fsport accessories again - no springs, exhaust etc

I'm happy that more F cars are coming but Lexus is slapping Fsport badges on everything before even establishing the F brand itself.

Putting out an weak F product that will get raped by car media and "haters" is a sure way to kill the brand.

SW17LS

This is true, but it doesn't mean that I'm not an enthusiast and that I don't appreciate what Lexus or other carmakers do in areas where I specifically am not a consumer.

Based on your current vehicles and how long its been since you've been a Lexus buyer and also some of your posts, its clear that you have become more of a BMW enthusiast than a Lexus enthusiast. Thats true of a lot of other people here too. Which is fine, but again...this is ClubLexus. Its frustrating for those of us who are owners currently and are enthusiasts currently to constantly have our discussions about these cars drug down by people who don't own them and haven't for years.

I mean, the last Lexus you owned is two generations behind the current, and now 10 model years old. How much seat time have you even spent in a 4GS? How many miles have you driven one and under what conditions. I've put 33,000 miles on one, so which of us is better able to discuss its positives and negatives?

I don't disagree...but there is a time and a place. The place is not in EVERY THREAD that discusses this upcoming car. Relentless negativity.

Obviously Lexus is changing and making an effort, instead of discussing how far they have come (which is REALLY far in a company as conservative and resistant to change as Toyota) all you guys want to talk about is how far they have to go.

Lexus could put out a 650 HP GS-F and the haters would still be there to rape it for something as would the media. Theres a huge double standard out there. Audi releases a FWD based S6 and A6 and its the best thing in the world, but Lexus releases the 4GS which for a brief moment was the best car in the segment...now they don't even mention it when discussing the segment. Always has been that way.

And again...you say the product is weak when we have no idea what the product even is yet. Relentless negativity.

I've said my peace, and I've made my point. I'm not going to convince you so I see no point in continuing to drag this thread down. Just...please...think about this and the positive responses its gotten from some other members in the thread next time you and others decide to post negative stuff about the car in a thread with released pictures or something like that...and I would hope that the Moderators would take this advice...and again the positive response its gotten from some other members in the thread to heart and use it to make CL an even better and more welcoming place for Lexus enthusiasts.

Unsubscribed.

J.P.

The negativity comes from Lexus, not the members here. Many of us I see on this forum have been 15+ year Toyota and Lexus owners, we are not just blind fans, we are life long customers that also demand more.

I cannot wake up in the morning and say "hey lexus, great job for not offering a v8 in the GS for several years", call me crazy but its 2015 and like a lot of people here we want more than what Lexus has to offer right now.

Toyota has the ability to do anything they want, for a lot of people here, many of us are tired of waiting.

Many of the people saying Lexus isn't doing enough happen to be those same people that got sucked into the brand when the 2nd gen GS came out. That car made you feel special, and Lexus has let a lot of loyal customers down since.

This is a Lexus forum, but many of its fan are also demanding customers, we don't want to go somewhere else, we want Lexus to give us the products we want to spend our money on.

I will never settle for mediocre then pat someone on the back for it, it just will not happen. I don't need a 550hp GS but I do want to hop in my sedan and feel special again, I guess we will wait and see what the GS-F has to offer.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

SW, I need to ask you to need to be a bit more understanding of other member's perspectives and recognize you can absolutely be a avid Lexus enthusiast while still stating concerns or sharing your personal perspective on things that can be done better.

I'm going to make a "man in the mirror" statement here to prove my point... You have had similar issues on CL yourself; in multiple other sub-forums of CL, you have repeatedly upset other members with your complaints about what Lexus has done with X model or the interior of Y model and that you don't like it or it's cheap, etc. There are dozens of threads that have ended up with members who own those other Lexus vehicles complaining about your posts... Don't you think Lexus deserves the "benefit of a doubt" there too and you shouldn't have posted those things? Aren't you a Lexus enthusiast?

What is being said here in this thread is NO DIFFERENT from those concerns you posted elsewhere (example)... Most Lexus enthusiasts have high expectations and hopes for the brand, and sometimes they aren't met. It's OK to talk about those concerns here on CL. When people start getting personal or upset as you know we (the moderator team) will step in. But we aren't going to censor Lexus enthusiasts sharing their opinion about what they'd like to see if it doesn't agree with what is being released. That just doesn't make sense for the community or even for Lexus.

If somebody is on CL only to be negative, they will find strong moderation in the Lexus model forums if they become repetitive of stating that negative opinion. Car chat is a bit more open. Also as a reminder, there is a handy forum ignore feature if another member's opinion bothers you
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/pro...?do=ignorelist

Let's get this thread back on track about the GS-F please; if anybody wants to discuss this further please PM me.

SW17LS

I want to see this get back to the GS-F too but I do want to respond to this.

You are correct, and I was wrong. I let my frustration over some decisions Lexus made specifically about packaging options on F Sports and interior quality degradation in some lower models get the better of me, and for a time I was guilty of what I have been talking about here. But...that no longer comes from me. Remember too that was about models that did already exist, and that I had first hand experience with. This car doesn't even exist yet. Its fine to be critical, we do and should have high expectations but when that criticism turns into negativity that becomes speculative and becomes relentless to where it crosses threads, continues from one thread to the next...IMHO it becomes a problem.

This is a great site, its really the only credible home for the Lexus enthusiast on the internet and thats coming from someone who spent 10 years moderating another forum...but please step back and look at what I and others here are saying.

obturator

There is a difference between criticism and negativity (with some members). I'll just let the moderators figure that one out. With that said, back to this GSF wickedly coming this way...

Gojirra99

A different Forum? I can assure you it's the same that I've read. You seem to always like to break something up and leave out the things that does not favour you argument to make a point.
INITIALLY, of course there SHOULD be complaints about the RC F weight in that forum, a top of the line F brand sports coupe being too heavy is a very legitimate concern and of course people should worry about it initially,

I don't see much complaints when they can finally see that the 467hp pretty much made up for the excessive weight and are pretty much dead even with the M4. Most agree it's a drivers' race
So please don't ignore the forum's final stage consensus and just complain about the initial stage negativity about the weight,

Differing opinions are expected to come in different stages in the unveiling of a new model, opinions can change as more data becomes available.
People should be free to talk about a car with partial information as well as what they think "could be" good or bad.
We can't close the forums on a new model and disallow discussion until all the data from various publications/sources are already available and some concessus has already been reached.

Of course we don't know the hp of the GS F to be, just that someone stated that they can't see it much higher than 467hp, and that's how this discussion got started, AGAIN, and that's OK too.

Of course you see one or 2 trolls masquerading as interested party in the RC F but are actually owners of competitors brand that will always post something negative, but if you didn't notice, you don't see them posting lately as they had been taken care of

I will not respond to the rest of your post since Dave and another moderator has already responded.