View Poll Results: Is this the GS F?
Yes
4
66.67%
No
2
33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus GS F sightings (updated pg 20)
07-30-13, 07:36 AM
#46
More Photos of the Lexus GS F Test Mule
A couple weeks back, a modified Lexus GS test mule was spotted alongside the camouflaged RC F coupe — today, Auto Evolution has new photos of what could be the GS F high performance sedan:
Despite the standard body shell, the quad-exhausts and exaggerated rear air diffuser are clear signs that this is no ordinary GS — the GS is also wearing the same LFA Nürburgring wheels seen on the RC F prototype, though they do look deceptively small.
There is one curious detail: the GS lacks the hood vents and fender vents seen on the RC F prototype — by omitting this type of performance boosts, just what are these engineers testing?
(Big request to all the spy photographers out there — get some photos of the front end!)
Despite the standard body shell, the quad-exhausts and exaggerated rear air diffuser are clear signs that this is no ordinary GS — the GS is also wearing the same LFA Nürburgring wheels seen on the RC F prototype, though they do look deceptively small.
There is one curious detail: the GS lacks the hood vents and fender vents seen on the RC F prototype — by omitting this type of performance boosts, just what are these engineers testing?
(Big request to all the spy photographers out there — get some photos of the front end!)
07-30-13, 07:38 AM
#47
Spyshots: 2015 Lexus GS F Performance Sedan
For a while now, we've been convinced by numerous media reports that Lexus has given up on its performance ambitions, that it's happy with just the F Sport model. But that's not the case at all!
In the past few weeks, a sexy performance coupe has begun testing in Europe. It's believed to be called the RC F and is based on the brand new 2014 IS sedan, but differs in terms of styling and probably offers a much ore powerful 5-liter V8 engine.
That car is aimed unashamedly at BMW M3 buyers, also at the new M4 coupe coming next year. But everybody knows it's the big boys' toys that grab all the attention, so Lexus' gurus are also working on a midsize performance saloon, like the BMW M5, like the Mercedes E63 AMG and like the Audi RS6/7.
Yes, that's right, the Lexus GS is getting its very first F model. A test prototype GS with quad exhaust has recently been spotted in a secretive test location in Germany. Lexus engineers would rather have kept this car a secret, but it's such a cool car that we can't contain our excitement.
Lexus might not have the reputation of its German rivals, but it's a company with the wind in its sails. Both the new GS and IS have proven very attractive for buyers across the world, and their decision not to adopt diesels and turbos gives them a marketing edge.
We really don't know for sure what the GS F will be like technically, but the we can take a ballpark guess. The most powerful sedan made by Lexus was the LS TMG Edition, a prototype powered by a supercharged 5-liter engine producing 650 PS and 710 Nm of torque.
That might seem a little extreme, but the Japanese automaker needs at least 600 horsepower to achieve bragging rights against the Germans, which all promise somewhere in the region of 580 PS.
In the past few weeks, a sexy performance coupe has begun testing in Europe. It's believed to be called the RC F and is based on the brand new 2014 IS sedan, but differs in terms of styling and probably offers a much ore powerful 5-liter V8 engine.
That car is aimed unashamedly at BMW M3 buyers, also at the new M4 coupe coming next year. But everybody knows it's the big boys' toys that grab all the attention, so Lexus' gurus are also working on a midsize performance saloon, like the BMW M5, like the Mercedes E63 AMG and like the Audi RS6/7.
Yes, that's right, the Lexus GS is getting its very first F model. A test prototype GS with quad exhaust has recently been spotted in a secretive test location in Germany. Lexus engineers would rather have kept this car a secret, but it's such a cool car that we can't contain our excitement.
Lexus might not have the reputation of its German rivals, but it's a company with the wind in its sails. Both the new GS and IS have proven very attractive for buyers across the world, and their decision not to adopt diesels and turbos gives them a marketing edge.
We really don't know for sure what the GS F will be like technically, but the we can take a ballpark guess. The most powerful sedan made by Lexus was the LS TMG Edition, a prototype powered by a supercharged 5-liter engine producing 650 PS and 710 Nm of torque.
That might seem a little extreme, but the Japanese automaker needs at least 600 horsepower to achieve bragging rights against the Germans, which all promise somewhere in the region of 580 PS.
07-30-13, 08:01 AM
#48
Pole Position
Audi S cars have been well received against proper amg/m cars down 100hp or so. There is more to a car than peak jp. AMG cars are making so much power now they are becoming AWD to keep the power to the ground but that means more weight and complexity.
This is not getting a new engine just a tweaked 5.0 V8.
AMG, M nor S/RS wasn't built in a day. So to hell what people think, as a Lexus enthusiast this is great to see finally coming to light.
This is not getting a new engine just a tweaked 5.0 V8.
AMG, M nor S/RS wasn't built in a day. So to hell what people think, as a Lexus enthusiast this is great to see finally coming to light.
But then again Lexus failed to do the same thing with IS and reason why IS cannot hold a candle to 335 is because its missing all the ingredients that made GS superior. In other words its fat and its missing that katana sharpness. So in IS's case more power would solve problem of 335. I guess they didn't want to risk it since IS is among cream and butter of Lexus car line up while GS is clearly a black sheep.
Anyway GS-F should not have more than 400 horsepower if they can compensate that with lightweight materials and proper balancing and fine tuning. Sure M5 and CLS63 would still be faster in the straight line but when it comes to dancing proper lightweight GS-F could have all the moves
07-30-13, 08:57 AM
#49
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely. Lexus has done it before with current GS, they made GS350 a more nimble and better balanced piece than 535, its not faster but its arguably more enjoyable/tossable.
But then again Lexus failed to do the same thing with IS and reason why IS cannot hold a candle to 335 is because its missing all the ingredients that made GS superior. In other words its fat and its missing that katana sharpness. So in IS's case more power would solve problem of 335. I guess they didn't want to risk it since IS is among cream and butter of Lexus car line up while GS is clearly a black sheep.
Anyway GS-F should not have more than 400 horsepower if they can compensate that with lightweight materials and proper balancing and fine tuning. Sure M5 and CLS63 would still be faster in the straight line but when it comes to dancing proper lightweight GS-F could have all the moves
But then again Lexus failed to do the same thing with IS and reason why IS cannot hold a candle to 335 is because its missing all the ingredients that made GS superior. In other words its fat and its missing that katana sharpness. So in IS's case more power would solve problem of 335. I guess they didn't want to risk it since IS is among cream and butter of Lexus car line up while GS is clearly a black sheep.
Anyway GS-F should not have more than 400 horsepower if they can compensate that with lightweight materials and proper balancing and fine tuning. Sure M5 and CLS63 would still be faster in the straight line but when it comes to dancing proper lightweight GS-F could have all the moves
Less than 400 hp what are you thinking? That would never sell...
Honestly if it weighed 3700 lbs with about 510-520 hp it would be in the same ball park as the competition. Otherwise no.
07-30-13, 09:38 AM
#50
Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do we care if the rest of Toyota do not have direct injection when the cars we do own and the cars we're interested in-- Lexus RWD sedans--DO incorporate direct injection and the VERY best implementation of direct injection at that?
There's a reason Toyota doesn't use solely direct injection like Hyundai like we previously stated : carbon buildup. It's expensive to use DUAL injection so that's why Toyota reserves it for its elite line of cars like the Lexus RWD sedans of IS,GS and LS. Why worry about rest of Toyota when we do get the direct injection (and more) in our Lexus cars?
There's a reason Toyota doesn't use solely direct injection like Hyundai like we previously stated : carbon buildup. It's expensive to use DUAL injection so that's why Toyota reserves it for its elite line of cars like the Lexus RWD sedans of IS,GS and LS. Why worry about rest of Toyota when we do get the direct injection (and more) in our Lexus cars?
i don't expect the gsf to have v10, but it's not revolutionary to expect the gsf to have more than 500hp either for it to succeed well. actually if emission is what they care, having a boosted high displacement engine seems to be better bank for the bucks. lexus current v6 lineup is very fuel efficient already imho, quite a bit ahead of competitions. i don't see why lexus needs to have a turbo 4 before they can have higher displacement setup. they have tons of talents and experience already. don't forget the 2jz-gte as one of the best engines ever made.
at least im not a fanboy.
The 2GR-FSE came out in 2006. It was one of the FIRST V6 engines, and one of the FIRST gasoline engines in the WORLD to get direct injection. Not just any direction injection, but Toyota's patented D4-S dual injection system. The D4-S system prevents carbon build-up and engine reliability problems long-term, problems which EVERY OTHER direct injection system has! Even Toyota's OWN 4GR-FSE on some Lexus and JDM models has carbon build-up issues.
The 2GR-FSE still remains as one of the BEST naturally aspirated non-turbo V6 engines out there. Toyota isn't rushing into turbos because they are developing a SUPERIOR implementation of turbos, and they don't want long-term reliability issues that ALL the companies that jumped into turbos recently have. BMW, Hyundai, Ford, they ALL have turbo issues on their new engines.
Also, Toyota has technologies like VVT-iE, and yes Valvematic, which will soon become more widespread.
Last edited by madfast; 07-30-13 at 09:47 AM.
They should just take pictures of their entire garage, we'll find the rest.....
07-30-13, 10:11 AM
#52
do you really expect toyota/lexus to whip out a V8 TT just like that? this isnt some speed shop where you slap on some big snails and done. there is TONS of engineering that goes along with it. has toyota done the engineering in the background? imo no. they have nothing to show for it right here, right now. that's actually why the turbo 4 is such a big deal. that is the engine that shows us they are throwing their hat in the ring. that being late is better than never.
at the same time, i am not saying they will have a FI v8 on this car, and i doubt so either. but it's different issue from whether they have the engineering for it or not.
i am not rooting or defending lexus, in fact i am whipping on them for being late and not fast enough. but i do agree with others that it takes time (just like bmw and amg). however they also have to be careful with what they put up and market, otherwise they shoot them in the foot right from the beginning and given the harsh market it's going to be hard to turn it off. they had a great start with isf, they need to be careful
audi s is ok but and yes they go against m and amg in some reviews. but when it comes to the prestige status, it still lose. just like why people still want the rs here. i just don't want to see the same on lexus
Last edited by rominl; 07-30-13 at 10:16 AM.
07-30-13, 11:29 AM
#55
Driver
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you can't be more wrong. i think you missed the FI ls460 toyota europe developped and tested on the ring? if you think toyota has not / does not do r&d or development on FI setup you are very mistaken. toyota is just very good at hiding information which we all know through history. like i said, toyota has had FI history and experience since the early 90s for crying out loud.
at the same time, i am not saying they will have a FI v8 on this car, and i doubt so either. but it's different issue from whether they have the engineering for it or not.
i am not rooting or defending lexus, in fact i am whipping on them for being late and not fast enough. but i do agree with others that it takes time (just like bmw and amg). however they also have to be careful with what they put up and market, otherwise they shoot them in the foot right from the beginning and given the harsh market it's going to be hard to turn it off. they had a great start with isf, they need to be careful
audi s is ok but and yes they go against m and amg in some reviews. but when it comes to the prestige status, it still lose. just like why people still want the rs here. i just don't want to see the same on lexus
07-30-13, 11:45 AM
#56
Pole Position
Upper echelon?
You do realize that Toyota as a company has far more cash reserves than either BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen right? If it wanted to, Toyota could probably buy out BMW and Mercedes immediately. And BOTH companies at once. VW would be harder but would be a matter of time only.
Don't mistake secretiveness and Japanese penchant for reserved behavior for lack of engineering prowess and ability. If I'm not wrong, Toyota has a far larger budget for and spent much more on research and development than the big German 3.
The main reason Toyota/Lexus SEEMINGLY aren't pumping out tech innovations as fast as its German competition is that Toyota's philosophy is to over-engineer every tech development for maximum reliability and ease of maintenance BEFORE announcing it on the market. Lots of times, the Germans dump "beta" versions of their products on the market for the unwitting consumer to act as beta-testers. Toyota prefers to iron out all the kinks before the consumer gets his/her hands on the product.
It's not a question of whether Toyota/Lexus can engineer a car to beat the M5/RS6/AMG. That's a given. It's a matter of whether the Lexus executives can make a good business case to the higher Toyota echelon that making a GS-F is worth their while.
If the final decision is a YES ( and it seems likely since Lexus has a huge supporter in Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda), and when Toyota decides to put its combined engineering know-how and vast resources behind the RC-F/GS-F projects, then ( not wanting to sound like a fanboy), beating the M5's/AMGs of the world is almost an inevitability.
Like I said before, Toyota takes an excruciatingly long time to commit to a decision. But when it does, it doesn't do things by half-measures. Case in point : the 1st LS400 all those years ago, more recently, the Lexus LFA. If I were an executive in BMW, MB or VW right now, news that the RC-F and GS-F is in the pipeline is going to cause me sleepless nights.
Unlike fanboys on messageboards, these German automotive professionals know just how much of an engineering titan Toyota can be if given the proper motivation.
You do realize that Toyota as a company has far more cash reserves than either BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen right? If it wanted to, Toyota could probably buy out BMW and Mercedes immediately. And BOTH companies at once. VW would be harder but would be a matter of time only.
Don't mistake secretiveness and Japanese penchant for reserved behavior for lack of engineering prowess and ability. If I'm not wrong, Toyota has a far larger budget for and spent much more on research and development than the big German 3.
The main reason Toyota/Lexus SEEMINGLY aren't pumping out tech innovations as fast as its German competition is that Toyota's philosophy is to over-engineer every tech development for maximum reliability and ease of maintenance BEFORE announcing it on the market. Lots of times, the Germans dump "beta" versions of their products on the market for the unwitting consumer to act as beta-testers. Toyota prefers to iron out all the kinks before the consumer gets his/her hands on the product.
It's not a question of whether Toyota/Lexus can engineer a car to beat the M5/RS6/AMG. That's a given. It's a matter of whether the Lexus executives can make a good business case to the higher Toyota echelon that making a GS-F is worth their while.
If the final decision is a YES ( and it seems likely since Lexus has a huge supporter in Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda), and when Toyota decides to put its combined engineering know-how and vast resources behind the RC-F/GS-F projects, then ( not wanting to sound like a fanboy), beating the M5's/AMGs of the world is almost an inevitability.
Like I said before, Toyota takes an excruciatingly long time to commit to a decision. But when it does, it doesn't do things by half-measures. Case in point : the 1st LS400 all those years ago, more recently, the Lexus LFA. If I were an executive in BMW, MB or VW right now, news that the RC-F and GS-F is in the pipeline is going to cause me sleepless nights.
Unlike fanboys on messageboards, these German automotive professionals know just how much of an engineering titan Toyota can be if given the proper motivation.
Last edited by natnut; 07-30-13 at 12:00 PM.
07-30-13, 11:48 AM
#57
Lexus Champion
Don't think the GS-F will have the same 465hp as the RC-F.
Remember that the GS will be positioned half a class higher than the RC.
Does anyone think the M5 will have the same hp as the M4? Same difference.
We might be looking at the same V8 as the RC-F but probably supercharged in the GS-F. For sure the GS-F hp > RC-F hp.
Remember that the GS will be positioned half a class higher than the RC.
Does anyone think the M5 will have the same hp as the M4? Same difference.
We might be looking at the same V8 as the RC-F but probably supercharged in the GS-F. For sure the GS-F hp > RC-F hp.
I hope you're right
For instance, RC-F would derive from the 3IS. So RC-F would basically be like an IS-F Coupe.......aimed at the likes of the M4 and probably RS5
For the GS-F however, having the same exact engine output WILL NOT SUFFICE............especially if you are pitching this vehicle to your M5/XFR/RS6/E63 owner (whose cars have more than 500 HP)
In this segment, 500 HP is "currently" the minimum price of admission.
Have less than that........and your competitors will not take you seriously imho.
P.S.
FYI:
For those who don't know, achieving 500 HP (minimum) is NOT HARD TO DO..........and the Toyota group knows this.
You can just slap a TRD Eaton Vortex Supercharger to any Toyota Group V8 engine and call it a day. That alone adds 120 HP and 200 Nm additional max torque (and that was back in year 2011).
If Lexus decides to use this method, then they can just slap that to any 2UR engine and you're done. If a 5.0 liter engine is too much (possibly for emissions regulations), then they can add the supercharger to the 1UR-FSE instead and you still get 500+ HP.
No problem
Last edited by Blackraven; 07-30-13 at 11:59 AM.
07-30-13, 12:32 PM
#58
What It Is: A completely undisguised Lexus GS sedan prototype decked out in high-performance, F-style gear. Lexus’s high-performance F sub-brand is similar in concept to BMW’s M or Mercedes-Benz’s AMG, but has thus far only churned out the IS F sedan and the LFA supercar as full-fledged models, as well as a passel of F Sport–branded trim levels for the IS, GS, and LS. Currently, the GS sedan lineup consists on the GS350, GS350 F Sport, and GS450h hybrid.
Why It Matters: If this test mule indeed previews a production GS F sedan, it would continue the mainstream expansion of Lexus’s F sub-brand, which will also launch the RC F—the F variant of the IS’s coupe sibling—next year. Furthermore, a true supersedan from Lexus finally would give its customers an alternative to stuff like the M5, the E63 AMG, or the Audi S6.
Platform: The GS F would get a completely worked-over chassis, and perhaps even some enhancements to the body structure to further stiffen things up. You can count on the sedan spending a decent amount of time circling Germany’s Nürburgring circuit, because, well, you can’t put out a performance variant anymore without claiming it was tuned on the ’Ring. Visually, the GS F will be set apart by subtly pumped-up styling, some of which is visible in these photos. The stacked exhaust finishers are an F signature, and the rear diffuser element and rear lip spoiler are spicier than even those of the GS F Sport. The front of the car can’t be seen in these shots, but look for the front clip to get sassier.
Powertrain: When our spy photographers recently captured the smaller RC F coupe testing, they managed to snag a video of the car in motion. The audio for that clip seemed to indicate eight-cylinder power, which could mean a V-8 will slide into the larger GS F, too. Currently, no GS offers more than six cylinders. An eight-cylinder engine would go a long way to differentiate the GS F and give it a fighting chance at taking on the M5, S6, and E63 AMG, all of which are powered by twin-turbo V-8s. We expect the Lexus to be rear-drive, but it could potentially incorporate the GS350 AWD’s four-wheel-drive components to better match up with the S6 and E63 AMG 4MATIC.
Competition: Audi S6, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG.
Estimated Arrival and Price: This GS F prototype seems pretty far along in its gestation, which indicates its reveal is just around the corner. We expect a debut next spring, and it should hit dealer lots a few months later as a 2015 model. Expect to pay a hefty premium over the GS350 F Sport, with the starting price approaching $70,000.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
07-30-13, 12:36 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not saying 550hp wouldn't be nice for bragging rights etc but if anyone here has driven sedans in that area it is so much power on the road that they are frightening fast yet so maddening b/c you can't use it unless you track the car every weekend.
If anyone has driven the new GS, the chassis is SUPERB and many of us have stated 400hp or so would make a PERFECT balance. The key word is BALANCE. Many of the most fun and admired driving cars are not the cars with the most power but the best overall.
I think 465hp or so in the GS F would make an amazing driving car and I can see a lot of people upgrading or it attracting people who want Lexus reliability mixed with some madness ala IS F and LFA.
465hp is still a TON of power on the road!
If anyone has driven the new GS, the chassis is SUPERB and many of us have stated 400hp or so would make a PERFECT balance. The key word is BALANCE. Many of the most fun and admired driving cars are not the cars with the most power but the best overall.
I think 465hp or so in the GS F would make an amazing driving car and I can see a lot of people upgrading or it attracting people who want Lexus reliability mixed with some madness ala IS F and LFA.
465hp is still a TON of power on the road!
07-30-13, 01:39 PM
#60
again that car was built by TMG engineers as a design study. it doesnt mean that much in the grande scheme of things.
nobody is doubting their engineering prowess. its the desire to engineer performance based technology, and not hybrid tech, that is in question. im sure akio toyoda has a lot to do with the new and exciting stuff coming out now. the problem is in the recent past which can be seen as wasted years, allowing the rest of the world to catch up.
they had time. they wasted it. it took akio toyoda to step up and save the company.
exactly why lexus isnt dumb enough to try and compete in the upper echelon.
nobody is doubting their engineering prowess. its the desire to engineer performance based technology, and not hybrid tech, that is in question. im sure akio toyoda has a lot to do with the new and exciting stuff coming out now. the problem is in the recent past which can be seen as wasted years, allowing the rest of the world to catch up.
they had time. they wasted it. it took akio toyoda to step up and save the company.
exactly why lexus isnt dumb enough to try and compete in the upper echelon.
also, 400hp is already a lot of power on the road already on most cars, most people can't even handle that much power. why not settle for it then? and who is the expert to say that 400hp would be the perfect balance for the gs chassis? i am just trying to look for more justifications on the rumored 460hp as the ideal.
if the f10 and the w212 chassis can somewhat handle 550hp, then with the far superior chassis of the gs, i think it SHOULD at least be able to handle 500hp.
a simple fact that i throw out there all the time but hardly anyone challenges it. just look no the street on most m5 and e63 (or most m and amg owners), how many of them are real drivers anyway? how many of them actually push say more than 60% of the cars' capabilities? do most owners get the cars for bragging rights and status or the actual performance? that is a key, there is more than just performance