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Toyota Camry America's top-selling car is in danger of losing its title

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Old 07-19-13, 01:59 PM   #16
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not a popular choice but id take the mazda 6 over all the others in that category
I would too. I've never driven one, but I keep hearing that Mazda is fun to drive even Mazda 2.
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Old 07-19-13, 02:56 PM   #17
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If it's going to happen, I don't think it will be lost this year. Next year could be a possibility though.

The Accord trails by 21,000 units so far. They'd have to beat the Camry for each of the remaining 6 months by an average of 3500 units. That's not going to happen. The Accord hasn't been ahead of the Camry in each of the first 6, why would it suddenly swing that far in favor of Accord now?
it is just a headline... in the article, analysts says that nobody is going to beat Camry this year.
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Old 07-19-13, 05:32 PM   #18
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The Camry's biggest problem, despite its admittedly huge sales numbers, is that Toyota, IMO, has never come out with a true replacement to the superb 3Gen 1992-1996 model. The 3Gen Camry was essentially a luxury-grade car (in comfort/ride/noise-isolation) at a family-sedan price....and was extremely well-built at that. Newer versions, for years, have shown more cheapening and use of thinner parts with each design. Interior quality also went downhill in later designs, which was at least partially-addressed in the latest version. But the latest version, while addressing some interior complaints, also stiffened up the suspension/tires too much, especially with the non-SE models that aren't supposed to be sport-oriented. So, yes, it's not surprising that sales are going down.
I agree. They've never really come out with a car that tops that. My parents 1998 and 2000 4th gens were still pretty refined, but were definitely cheapened. They have a 2012 now which I think is horrible. It's very buzzy and sounds absolutely terrible, it looks like bean counters designed the interior, and yes it's quite stiff for an XLE model that's supposed to be comfortable.

I always used to think the Camry got the short end of the stick in the C&D 10 Best list, with the Camry constantly getting snubbed in favor of the Accord. I'm not saying that this time around. Honda too have been going either sideways or backwards a lot, but they've really moved the Accord forward on the latest generation. It's very impressive.
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Old 07-19-13, 05:34 PM   #19
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I own a current gen 2012, and think it can hold its own for the next couple years and not need a Civic esque emergency refresh. Looks are nothing special, interior is crap IMHO though i do love the touchscreen which is my favorite upgrade from my past 2004 camry. I do wish I would have waited a year to check out the new Accord but i really dislike the feel and noise of CVT's.
Don't knock it until you've tried it. According to most reviews Honda has done a really good job with their CVT in the feel department. A friend had a Nissan Altima rental for a few days and I thought it was fine in the full auto mode having driven CVTs before, but my friend hated it. I told him to put it down into the "S" mode which I knew mimicked real gear changes. LOL it felt more like a very slow shifting and possibly slipping transmission than it did a nice crisp automatic. haha
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Old 07-19-13, 08:05 PM   #20
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Comparing a car's generations is certainly relative to the period so while the Camry was more ahead of the competition in 1992, I hope people wouldn't say that a 1992 Camry is a better car than a 2012/13 regardless of era.

A '92-'96 has a far cheaper interior with what is now considered crappy plastic. Really nice in 1992, really cheap looking now. And as for the rest of the car, there's always talk about the '92-'96 's legendary quality/reliability. The fact is, is that today's car will last longer and do it with less needed maintenance and repairs.


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I don't understand how people could say that this ^ is a crappy interior. I think it's fantastic.
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Old 07-19-13, 08:29 PM   #21
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Don't knock it until you've tried it. According to most reviews Honda has done a really good job with their CVT in the feel department. A friend had a Nissan Altima rental for a few days and I thought it was fine in the full auto mode having driven CVTs before, but my friend hated it. I told him to put it down into the "S" mode which I knew mimicked real gear changes. LOL it felt more like a very slow shifting and possibly slipping transmission than it did a nice crisp automatic. haha
was it 4cly Altima? Usually it is a "feel" problem with low powered cars, higher ones are fine because you never have to keep pressing gas for long anyway. So you dont notice the drone.

Toyota CVT I have driven in europe had really nice S mode... but i couldnt stand the normal mode when i had 4 guys in it and was going uphill in 150hp petrol car... it was really like i was trying to torture myself.
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Old 07-19-13, 08:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
Comparing a car's generations is certainly relative to the period so while the Camry was more ahead of the competition in 1992, I hope people wouldn't say that a 1992 Camry is a better car than a 2012/13 regardless of era.

A '92-'96 has a far cheaper interior with what is now considered crappy plastic. Really nice in 1992, really cheap looking now. And as for the rest of the car, there's always talk about the '92-'96 's legendary quality/reliability. The fact is, is that today's car will last longer and do it with less needed maintenance and repairs.
Kinda doubt that. Our 2002 Toyota Highlander that we still have is noticeably better built than the generation of Highlanders that came after it. And that same older Highlander has had far fewer issues than the 2007 RAV4 V6 that I had and got rid of because it was such a piece of crap. I've been in most of the newer Toyotas and none of them seemed as well built and "solid" feeling to me as the older Toyotas that I grew up with, including the aforementioned 1992-1996 Camry. Just overall refinement, the 1997-2002 Camrys which my parents had two of were way ahead of their 2012 that they have now.

Older Toyotas in XLE or Limited guise with all the trimmings were seriously just as good as a Lexus, just with Toyota badging. I don't think anybody could possibly say that about Toyotas today. Heck even some of the Lexus models are getting really cheap inside, like the ES.


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http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/27860308.jpg

http://www.trendzcar.com/wp-content/...Interior-1.jpg

I don't understand how people could say that this ^ is a crappy interior. I think it's fantastic.
Been in it and driven it quite a bit. It's not bad, but it hardly impresses me either. I think the Altima has a nicer interior, along with the new Accord too. It looks nice yes, but the actual look and feel of the materials up close just doesn't convey through the photos.

Oh and kinda not fair to compare an 'old' and worn shot of the 92-96 to a new press shot of the 2012. Makes it apples to oranges. Old Toyotas with all the trimmings had the look and feel of luxury. New Toyotas are just kinda blah.
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Old 07-20-13, 08:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
A '92-'96 has a far cheaper interior with what is now considered crappy plastic. Really nice in 1992, really cheap looking now.
This is 100% wrong. The interior in a generation 3 Camry is very high quality with soft touch plastic on most surfaces. The seat fabric is extremely durable, same with the carpet. Compare that to the paper thin carpets used now, hard plastic everywhere etc.
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And as for the rest of the car, there's always talk about the '92-'96 's legendary quality/reliability. The fact is, is that today's car will last longer and do it with less needed maintenance and repairs.
Highly doubt this. A gen3 Camry was built with the highest components possible, very solid car to say the least. Examples with 100k miles often have less squeaks and rattles than a new Camry. Go read some of the Camry forums, you'll see complaints about sunroof rattles, poorly installed glass/distorted glass, steering issues, engine rattles.

Toyota spared no expense on the gen3 Camry (which is really a Lexus), to do the same today would price the car right out of the market.
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Old 07-20-13, 08:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
A '92-'96 has a far cheaper interior with what is now considered crappy plastic. Really nice in 1992, really cheap looking now. And as for the rest of the car, there's always talk about the '92-'96 's legendary quality/reliability. The fact is, is that today's car will last longer and do it with less needed maintenance and repairs.
You apparantly misunderstood what I was saying. The 3Gen 1992-96 Camry Interior was not necessarily luxury-grade in the sense of having acres of leather/wood/chrome (though dealer-installed wood-trim packages were available). However, as Lexus 2000 (correctly) pointed out above, it was assembled with durable materials that have withstood the test of time. I see 3Gen models still on the road every day that run (and sometimes look) almost like new. In addition, the 3Gen model was built before the days when the industry became obsessed with sports-car handling even in vehicles that aren't supposed to be sport-oriented, and, therefore, delivers ride-comfort that, in some ways, is only a memory today.
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Old 07-20-13, 10:04 AM   #25
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We owned a 1993 Camry LE V6 for years and it was pretty much bulletproof. It looks dated because it is dated, but the fit/finish and quality of material is definitely nicer than most of today's car. The dash is soft to the touch like my 2GS and the body panels feel quite solid. I generally hate driving Camrys in general, but I really didn't mind the 3rd gen at all, providing it had a V6.
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Old 07-20-13, 10:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
Comparing a car's generations is certainly relative to the period so while the Camry was more ahead of the competition in 1992, I hope people wouldn't say that a 1992 Camry is a better car than a 2012/13 regardless of era.

A '92-'96 has a far cheaper interior with what is now considered crappy plastic. Really nice in 1992, really cheap looking now. And as for the rest of the car, there's always talk about the '92-'96 's legendary quality/reliability. The fact is, is that today's car will last longer and do it with less needed maintenance and repairs.


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I don't understand how people could say that this ^ is a crappy interior. I think it's fantastic.
The 92 Camry's build quality blows away the current model.
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Old 07-20-13, 01:55 PM   #27
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If you have an XLE Camry, you're not really getting any worse of an interior than any of the competition. It's the LE model that gives people the bad impression, and even that's not as bad as it's portrayed. It needs to be better, but a little perspective is in order.

The best Camry interior is the 2nd Generations.

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Old 07-21-13, 12:25 AM   #28
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I just spent almost a week with a new Fusion with leather and I'm stunned at how good it is outside of handling like a 1999 RX 300. It looks really interesting inside and out.

The Camry is a solid car but is just really bland in this segment where the best looking car is arguably a Kia of all things!
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Old 07-21-13, 01:19 AM   #29
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The 92-96 camry will always be my favorite camry. Smooth and great build quality. The new camry looks good too especially in SE trim, but I think I'd take the new accord over it.
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Old 07-21-13, 02:21 AM   #30
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The 92-96 Camry interior looked a lot better in the two tone tan/brown scheme.

As far as the new Camry goes, its better in some areas, worse in others. I've had a lot of seat time with a fully spec'd out 2012 SE V6, and IMO the interior feel varies a lot depending on color and trim level. The base tan interior we looked at on the lot was horrible, weird seat fabric, colors didn't seem to go together. The SE we bought was black with grey suede inserts on the seats, metallic accents on the dash/console. It looks great, a lot better IMO than the cheap fake woodgrain of the XLE model. Plus the sport seats in the SE are great, very supportive, nicely bolstered.

The V6 seriously hauls *** in that car, the transmission is brilliant and always in the right gear, it corners flatly and drives like a much smaller, sportier car. It still rides great as well, its not one of those cars that punishes you on bad roads. I know why my mom bought this car, its not because its exceptionally well built, its that the damn thing is a rocket ship and a lot of fun to drive(she had a 2000 Avalon, while nice, was rather slow and dimwitted in the handling department)

As for things I don't like, the carpet is cheap as hell(floormats are nice so you don't notice it too much), gauge cluster is kind of weirdly laid out with a giant speedo and a tiny tach, headliner is rubbish, stereo sucks as it has no midbass(its the upgrade JBL unit), and it is significantly noiser inside than past Camrys(the rubber band 18" wheel option has something to do with it). Reliability has been great, its been driven A LOT, 40 or maybe 50k on it now, just needed regular oil changes and that's it.

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