natnut

This all the way.Many of these comments rubbishing hybrids are made from a purely US standpoint. Globally, mainstream V8s are dead, what with the new emissions/fuel efficiency restrictions. If you want excitement and don't want to pay through your nose for a full AMG/RS/F niche model, AND you don't live in the US, then chances are that sporty exciting sedan
you're eyeing will be a turbo-diesel (If you like German) or a hybrid Lexus.

The mainstream V8 will die off long before the hybrid. Hybrid is just getting started. And those who say a GS450h F-Sport isn't exciting hasn't driven one around a corner at speed yet.



Also those that gripe that luxury hybrids don't pay for themselves in fuel savings are MISSING THE POINT : there is a smoothness and torque with a luxury hybrid drivetrain ( such as that found in the GS450h)that simply can't be replicated by a conventional Internal combustion engine. For now, luxury hybrids allow for the low end effortless torque that luxury buyers previously only found in high end V8 flagships without the attendant gas guzzler fuel consumption. In short, a luxury hybrid is for the LUXURY of effortless low end shove first and fuel savings second.

natnut

Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but clearly the GS competes against the 5 series, E-Class and A6.

If your point is that there is no GS submodel that competes with the German V8s or M/AMG/S/RS lineup, then you have a point.

But making that blanket statement about the GS not competing against the German mid-sizers conveniently ignores the fact that the vast majority of German mid-size luxury sales are of four/six cylinder cars, many of which have worse performance than the 3.5L V6 in the GS.

RNM GS3

This just goes to support my argument of the sales failure of Lexus Hybrids.

Article as of July 10,2013

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/top-10-a...07.html?page=2

Top 10 automotive failures of the last decade

6. Lexus HS 250h — 20,875 sold between 2009 and 2012

3. Lexus LS 600h L — 2,055 sold since October 2007*

natnut

Again a myopic viewpoint ignoring the overall sales success GLOBALLY of Lexus hybrids that several posters have already pointed out.

Toys4RJill

I have to agree, the HS was a flop. The 600h was a disaster.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The GS may have the same powertrain, but with virtual no weight gain from 3GS to 4GS, and the best handling characteristics of its class, not to mention more usable space, milestone interior etc.. you can't say it performs worse than the last generation when it really doesn't.

The GS may be smaller than a E or 5, but it is certainly in that class. Acura TL can't even be muttered in the same sentence as GS, E, 5, A6, XF. The TL and Acura are an premium brand not a luxury brand.

Lexus should take a page from BMW or Caddy with it's new arrary of engines, even the awesome 3.6L TT V6 VSport model, but just because it lacks a large engine choice doesn't mean it's a bad vehicle.

Lexus has a midsize vehicle in the GS. Again it is a few inches smaller than a 5 or E, but it's not a straddler. Blame the existence of the ES. If Lexus canned the ES, the GS could grow a few more inches, even more plushness, roominess, and offer sport AND comfort settings so buyers don't have to choose between a GS and ES which are catered to two different demographics. Just look at the E class. Luxurious and comfortable all the time, sport on demand when you need it.

I understand your frustration, as I am in a tizzy with Lexus too over packaging options and cost cutting, mostly on anything below the $50K mark. And yes, the lack of a V8 has me barking up 550i territory - though I may swing the other way and choose a 14' Mazda3 for a nice daily/excellent mileage car too.

LexFather

Yes from the #1 car resource yahoo

The funny thing is the HS didn't meet Lexus sales expectations yet still outsold every hybrid not named Prius or RX at the time.

The LS 600h L is a special order vehicle. Should they put the S600 and 760 as failures too? Makes no sense.

gengar

You need to cherry-pick a single model that didn't sell well and a single niche flagship premium product yet ignore all the mass-market success to try to have an argument about overall sales? How much do you need to grasp for straws - and for what purpose, just to be argumentative on an internet forum?

Your absurd ranting about Lexus' "failure" in the hybrid market is totally devoid of any fact or logic.

Och

iTrader: (3)

LS600h is far from failure, its one of the best cars out there period, but not many people can afford it.

The HS250 was a failure, but not because it was a hybrid. Rather because its build quality vs its price was an insult - for nearly 40 grand you got interior that felt like recycled tide cans. And the exterior design wasn't too pretty either.

ISF350

I just can't wait any longer for the long due ISF or GSF. The current ISF is too ricer can't compete with other rivalry and competition. Steering and handling is subpar to call a sport car really. Lexus need to step up to match C63AMG black and M3 on the real track.

Toys4RJill

Read today that the 5.0 will be dropped for the 2015 not sure if that applies to the us market but we will see I guess.

tg2387

I personally am excited for the new IS redesig

tg2387

Its a very big shift for the company

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

You still need to gives props where props are due. No other Japanese make had anything remotely close to the fire breating M3, RS4 and C63 AMG with their V8's shoehorned into their smallest sedans until the IS-F which was their first attempt and a great one at that. The 2nd gen (with the LFA, GS F-Sport and IS F-Sport handling DNA) can only get better.

trexlexus

That is a little unfair .

The 600hL represents the topmost LS you can get. Not many people will want to spend an EXTRA 40% of a base LS to buy the top model. On top of that, though the 600 was a technological tour de force, it didn't offer enough differences from the base LS. Near identical MPG and very little stylistic differences (headlights) isn't going to convince many people. Same thing with the S65 vs the "plebeian" S class. the 65 doesn't sell greatly, but it is more successful than the LSh because it distinguishes itself more from the base S. However, if you give it a 0-60 of just 0.1 seconds faster than the 550, do you think a lot of folks would buy it?

Yes, some people will buy the top model, but those that DO do that do so because of very attractive things that the top model offers that the lesser ones do not. The 600, unfortunately DOES not offer a great difference from the 460.

The HS was priced too high for it's benefits. That just goes to show my first point.
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By extension, I think that Lexus is on point for its hybrid strategy except for 1 thing. The pricing vs. benefits is not very great.

A lot of Lexus hybrids are priced much higher than their petrol counterparts. If they offered A LOT for the money, they'd sell better. Unfortunately they do not.

A simple solution for Lexus would be to offer more lower end and middle trim hybrids. They were on track by offering the GS300h in China but it didn't come stateside. The hybrids are priced too high.

They have started working on it with the ESh. It is only a LITTLE bit more expensive, but it does offer a good bit in return. Success is there, they just should rethink the hybrid positioning.

Imagine the success if there were GS250h/300h, LS350h, and RX300h offered.