Bass Mech

Oh boy! Another Acura with the same lathargic V6 they put in every other mid size car, truck and SUV they make! When is Honda Acura going to learn that if they want to make a car exciting they need to grow a pair and either use FI or a V8! Damn even the nsx was gutless!
Acura seems to think making the cars new and futuristic looking is going to inspire people to buy, horsepower is what sells and Honda has always lacked in that department!

Whitigir

Sh-Awd is debatable against Asymmetrical AWD. One thing is for sure, Subaru is more fun to drive, less reliable. Acura is less fun to drive, more reliable.....head scratching choices

Vladi

Well.... Neither Subaru has a premium and medium sized car current like SH-AWD TL nor does the Acura have small sports car like STi. Upcoming SH-AWD TLX won't be as much as fun as STi that's for sure but it will compensate in other areas.

UDel

This shows you are pretty uninformed about V6's and Honda V6's. Honda and Acura V6's are arguably the smoothest, most refined, most fuel efficient, most responsive NA V6's in their class and that is even with a older SOHC design. The last thing they are is "lethargic". The Honda Accord is the quickest V6 in class, it does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds with a automatic, it makes more power and has better acceleration then any Toyota V6 and is competitive acceleration wise with most Lexus V6's. The RLX V6 makes 310hp, more hp then any Toyota/Lexus V6. Are you really saying that Honda and Acura cars with V6's are "lethargic" with low hp but Toyota and Lexus V6's are not or noticeably different, better go check hp figures and 0-60 times for current models in their lineups.

The NSX was not gutless by any means, it beat the V8 Ferrari 328 and 348 in every performance category with a lower hp NA V6. Its NA V6 made 270hp when most V6's at the time were making 200hp or less. The 3.2 NSX update was just as fast or quicker then the V8 Corvettes making 340hp and the Ferrari 355 making 375hp. The NSX-R beat cars around tracks with V8's and V12's making twice its "rated" hp. Could it use more power, sure, every sports car aside from a Veyron could, but it was not gutless. The NSX was not a drag car or all about power, it was about the total package, quality, and driving experience and it changed the way supercars were made, it did not need a big V8 or V12 to do that.

Why don't you wait to see how the TLX performs before you write it off as lethargic just based on some specs and not even knowing much about Honda V6's. All cars in its class use 6 or 4 cylinders including Lexus, most V6's are NA and not FI.

HP does not sell either in the luxury market, look at the sell rate between the IS250 and 350, between the 3rd gen GS350 and 430/460, and look at the sell rate between V6 and V8 cars in the mid size class luxury class, the take rate for V8's is so low it is one of the main reasons they are being phased out.

UDel

Not really, The TLX will be much much sportier then the ES to be really compared too directly, the ES is rarely ever in auto comparisons with the TL especially when the 3rd Gen TL came, the TL was normally compared to the 3 series, A4, Infiniti G35/37, Lexus IS, I doubt you will see many direct TLX comparisons with the ES350 when it comes out. The ES350 uses the same exact engine with the same hp from a Camry. TL has always used a bigger engine or had a optional larger engine that made much more power then a Accord not to mention the current and newer one have a SH-AWD option.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

You mean Type-S, it's not a defunct Jaguar

LexFather

Wow, what a way to start your paragraph.

It does matter. Acura isn't a luxury brand so they can somewhat get away from offering the same 150hp-305hp for the last decade or so. Their buyers don't care.


Wait so you tell the guy to "wait to drive a TLX" then you state right after "the TLX will drive much sportier than an ES"? LOL!! The TL and ES drive mostly the same, 85% sold are FWD and not sporty at all. Acura can shout all they want that its aiming for the 3 series, IS etc but the car continues to be a "Tweener" and mostly a solid, reliable ES/Buick type vehicle. The SH-AWD accounts for very small sales. I didn't even mention the ES moved sportier this current gen, a FWD TL and a FWD ES are pretty damn identical in the drive.

The ES and TL are equals. Period.

LexusFsprt

Acura was hot when the 3rd Gen TL came out in 2004... the styling, best OEM HIDs, 270 HP, it was the hottest cake in the market back then.
Acura's V6 are very responsive and delivers power. So saying these cars lack power.... I wouldn't say till you drive their V6 vehicles. Although I do agree, they have to ditch the FWD.
My father owned about 7 Acura's since the Legend and 3 of them being the 3rd Gen TL. I used to drive my fathers '12 TSX '12 MDX for 2 years till I went to Lexus..

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

the 3TL. I was so close to pulling the trigger on a 2008 Type-S 6M Blk/Blk, went with what I have now, but not a bad option. Despite it being FWD, what a fun and connected machine I could only imagine how much more amazing it would be with SH-AWD

dseag2

Well said. I owned a '99 TL which was a decent car. I owned an '04 TL, which was a great car (overlooking the torque steer) and good-looking as well. They still look better than the current generation. I made the mistake of trading the '04 TL for an '05 RL when it first came out. The dealer offered me a trade-in I couldn't refuse. The RL had 4 TSBs in the first few months and was a really bland car. I sold the RL after 8 months.

Acura is not unlike Lexus with the '89 LS400 that put the competitors on notice. The new LS is nice, but has lost its edge because the competition has gotten so much better. The Legend was a great car for its time, but the competition has stepped up. The new Acura sedans barely compete.

yowps3

How is the competition of the LS 'so much better' than the LS?

I've inspected all of the LS's competitors and the LS is by far the highest and most impeccable regarding quality and refinement. By a very easily noticeable margin.

This is a 2010 S-class interior;
How mundane looking


Even the much older LS430 has a far more pleasant interior

And the new S-class? Well I'd say there is a fine line between chintzy and tasteful but this new S-class is on the lean side of chintzy.



Also LS comes with a V8 as standard. Cannot say the same about the rest.

Besides look at the sales numbers. The LS still does well considering how it's 8yrs old and by far the oldest in class. Just goes to show how good it really is.

Bass Mech

eh, personally i really don't give 2 *****s what you think about how informed or uninformed i am. I've owned 2 TSX and 2 TL a ridgeline a pilot and a prelude. I've moved on from the offerings of acura/honda
my wife had a 2008 GS 350 AWD when the lease was up we traded in for the acura TL SH AWD with all the goodies. at first i thought i could live with it. we drove it for 2 years and i couldn't wait to get back into a GS so we got a 2013 the Lexus 350 is direct injected the acura is MP i don't know the exact numbers off hand but when i switched back to the GS i read the HP and TQ numbers side by side and i know for a fact the GS had more HP and more TQ than the ACURA and having owned both back to back i can verify without a doubt the GS has more power in the lower RPM range than the ACURA the fact is regardless of which has more the ACURA doesn't really make any usable power until it's near redline this makes it lethargic for regular driving.
i think the TL is a fine car for someone on a budget and it is priced accordingly compared to the GS similarly equipped.

you may not like HP but the vast majority of people will buy cars with more HP the only reason people buy the IS 250 is because the IS 350 is out of their price range for the same reason few can afford a corvette (I've had 2 Z06's)
if you think car enthusiasts don't get sold on HP your the one who is uninformed, or perhaps higher HP cars just aren't in your budget?
personally, if the IS was offered with the 5.0 V8 i would have bought it without hesitation!

but that said, i will give you this.. i bet you don't live at 6,500 feet above sea level either! if i lived where we actually had air the IS 250 would be adequate power for most. however up here an IS 350 performs marginally better than a 250 at sea level! that said, you might be able to grasp where i am coming from. up here HP sells! nuff said!
if i lived at sea level i am sure i would be happy with the performance of a lot of cars i wouldn't consider here. I've rented 4 cal cars from the airport in cities near sea level and they felt like v6 power to me.

and for a $90,000 "exotic"the NSX was and still is a pathetic excuse for a sports or "exotic" car and never did justify the lofty price tag! comptech made an SC kit that made it perform somewhat near what you might expect for a high performance sports car. but having owned 2 Z06 corvettes that cost considerably less than an NSX equipped with a V8 trust me when i tell you if you think an NSX is fast, you would wet yourself in the seat of a real sports car!
for a V8 with pistons nearly 4 inches in diameter displacing 2x the size of a NSX and still have a redline of 7,500 rpm is something worth bragging about.
but its not just about horsepower! HP is a calculated number it is RPM X Torque / 5252 honda is well known for making high HP engines with small displacement and thats really something to brag about isn't it? not so fast! Torque is the twisting force that makes everything happen. torque is what is making the car go. HP is just bragging numbers for marketing purposes. anyone can make an engine that spins to 10,000 rpm and puts up a big HP number! WHO CARES? just like the LFA by comparison it's almost as fast as a Z06 but it doesn't make any real power until its near redline and the reason it is slower is because it makes pathetic torque!
there simply is no replacement for displacement!
Diesel engines make butt loads of torque very little HP but they are FAST for the low HP because their max torque curve happens well below 5252 RPM (most Diesel engines don't even turn that fast)

so in closing, honda / acura really needs to design something with a turbo and stop putting the same basic engine in the accord, crosstour, pilot, ridgeline, TL, MDX, ZDX ect..
at least lexus only uses the same 3.5 in 2 of their cars

the Lexus 3.5 L makes more TQ and HP than the competition because it is DIRECT INJECTED anything that uses this technology will benefit for better power and better fuel economy.
i just bought a brand new GMC sierra wight he DI 6.2 from the corvette stingray. it makes 420 HP and 460 TQ look around there is't another manufacturer making a V8 with those numbers in a 6.2L and it gets a rated 20 mph highway better fuel economy than any of the V8 engines of this size also.

keyframe13

I really don;t know in what narrow world are you living in but S-Class is the banchmark in it's class for years and the engines and technologies the car offers Lexus cannot even dream of it yet.
Yes, LS it's a very fine car. It is the best Lexus car ever produced but S-class is so much more superior.
Talking about sales?! S-class is the best sell luxury car in the world.
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/i...ion-long-over/

SLegacy99

I don't really see that as a perk at this point. I think it's important to have the option, but reduced displacement and forced induction is becoming the standard.

link13

Seeing the NSX lumped in with the other corporate Honda V6 engines made me cringe. My folks have an NSX and I have driven it many times in many different scenarios. The driving dynamics of the car are such that just focusing on horsepower does not do the car justice, in my opinion. The TLX is definitely a car I will look at when it's in production. That's what the thread is about, after all.