MM Full-Review: 2013 Cadillac ATS.
#46
I am simply amazed by some of the wrong information you both have mention, just like mmarshall, you guys are very unsure of the entry level segment for luxury sport sedans.
The standard 2.5 I4 does not compete with the 2.5 V6, it is the 2.0 turbo model that competes with the 2.5 V6.
1. You cannot get the 2.5 I4 in AWD or top tier packages. You can get both the 2.0t and 2.5V6 in all packages. You cannot get premium or performance models of the 2.5I4, but you can get the top package as well as an F sport package with the IS 2.5.
2. AWD is not available with the 2.5 I4. AWD is available with the Lexus 2.5 and the 2.0 Caddy Turbo.
Finally, as you starting building your options on either the ATS or IS you won't go to far with the 2.5I4.
You can get a fully loaded 2014 Is 2.5 in either RWD or AWD, you can't do that with the 2.5 I4 Caddy.
Such misinformation from some of you guys.
The standard 2.5 I4 does not compete with the 2.5 V6, it is the 2.0 turbo model that competes with the 2.5 V6.
1. You cannot get the 2.5 I4 in AWD or top tier packages. You can get both the 2.0t and 2.5V6 in all packages. You cannot get premium or performance models of the 2.5I4, but you can get the top package as well as an F sport package with the IS 2.5.
2. AWD is not available with the 2.5 I4. AWD is available with the Lexus 2.5 and the 2.0 Caddy Turbo.
Finally, as you starting building your options on either the ATS or IS you won't go to far with the 2.5I4.
You can get a fully loaded 2014 Is 2.5 in either RWD or AWD, you can't do that with the 2.5 I4 Caddy.
Such misinformation from some of you guys.
I'm talking about a performance comparison. Not options of added tech, nor fluff.
Speaking of which, where's that CT you supposedly own?
#48
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW.
Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
GM has some of the best engine, transmission, and suspension technology, and their suspension tech is as good or better than anyone else.
Cadillac is on a roll and while not considered the standard of the world, that hasn't been the case for probably 50 years.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-09-13 at 08:46 PM.
#50
Pole Position
I am simply amazed by some of the wrong information you both have mention, just like mmarshall, you guys are very unsure of the entry level segment for luxury sport sedans.
The standard 2.5 I4 does not compete with the 2.5 V6, it is the 2.0 turbo model that competes with the 2.5 V6.
The standard 2.5 I4 does not compete with the 2.5 V6, it is the 2.0 turbo model that competes with the 2.5 V6.
#51
Lexus Fanatic
You can't get a performance or fully loaded ATS with the 2.5 I4, and you also can't get AWD with 2.5 I4. Keep in mind that the 2.5 V6 in the IS is available in all packages including AWD and F-Sport.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-10-13 at 07:41 AM.
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
BTW, some auto journalist/reviewers that I personally have a high opinion of are Top Gear's James May, Rich Ceppos (now retired) of both Car and Driver and Autoweek magazine, John Davis (who I casually know) of the Motorweek TV show, and Peter Egan, who likes to work on old sports-car projects and writes the "Side Glances" column in Road and Track magazine. These gentlemen seem to be credible auto-enthuisiasts who, IMO, definitely do a better-than-average job in their work.
#53
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your choice of course, but they're very different vehicles. driving a GS and any of these smaller luxury cars will make the difference immediately obvious. i no longer find mid-large size sedans 'sporty'. sure some of them are fast, and some of them handle well (think M5), but they only handle well considering their humongous weight. physics and gravity isn't suddenly erased. driving a lighter smaller car is, to me at least, MUCH more enjoyable, unless one is just cruising down the highway.
again, your opinion, but they're gaining more and more respect with each new model. GM has some of the best engine, transmission, and suspension technology, and their suspension tech is as good or better than anyone else. so good that even ferrari uses it. MagneRide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the ATS/CTS/XTS are very competitive, and the auto world has changed. cadillac is on a roll and while not considered the standard of the world, that hasn't been the case for probably 50 years.
again, your opinion, but they're gaining more and more respect with each new model. GM has some of the best engine, transmission, and suspension technology, and their suspension tech is as good or better than anyone else. so good that even ferrari uses it. MagneRide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the ATS/CTS/XTS are very competitive, and the auto world has changed. cadillac is on a roll and while not considered the standard of the world, that hasn't been the case for probably 50 years.
I'm not trying to say that the GS is dynamically superior or more fun to drive than the ATS or CTS. They're great cars. I think Cadillac is simply trying to copy the BMW playbook with a somewhat American flavor. Which is OK, they're doing a good job, just not my thing. I don't need or want sporty anymore. I have a car that's plenty "sporty", a 2012 Mustang GT 6-speed which would clobber any standard ATS or 3-Series variant. I'm over it.
All I'm really saying is, TO ME, a base GS at $48k is a better deal and more appealing than a loaded-out 2.0 ATS. And, in general, I'm surprised at how quickly the entry-level models have approached $50k. Hell, if I wanted to buy American again and have it be sporty, I would much rather have the new Chevy SS sedan at $45K than a $45K ATS! I'm a tall guy (6'2), so a nice mid-size sedan with a little bit of handling and a lot of refinement is all I need/want at this point in life. I think the GS fits that bill just fine.
Of course, MY opinion Bit. Don't blow a microchip.
EDIT: I'm well aware of MagnaRide and I respect it (wish Lexus would offer something similar as a stand alone option), but I don't think GM "developed" it according to that article. Seems like it's a Delphi development (no specifics on how much if anything GM had to do with it directly??), Chinese owned and was simply used by GM first. So it's just as much Ferrari's as it is GM's now...which is to say, not much.
Last edited by SecPole14; 07-10-13 at 09:55 AM.
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yeah, my opinion. Don't get so up in arms about posts like that, I'm not going to type "IMHO" after every statement. I assume that I'm reading an opinion unless someone is aggressively trying to prove otherwise.
I'm not trying to say that the GS is dynamically superior or more fun to drive than the ATS or CTS. They're great cars. I think Cadillac is simply trying to copy the BMW playbook with a somewhat American flavor. Which is OK, they're doing a good job, just not my thing. I don't need or want sporty anymore. I have a car that's plenty "sporty", a 2012 Mustang GT 6-speed which would clobber any standard ATS or 3-Series variant. I'm over it.
All I'm really saying is, TO ME, a base GS at $48k is a better deal and more appealing than a loaded-out 2.0 ATS. And, in general, I'm surprised at how quickly the entry-level models have approached $50k. Hell, if I wanted to buy American again and have it be sporty, I would much rather have the new Chevy SS sedan at $45K than a $45K ATS! I'm a tall guy (6'2), so a nice mid-size sedan with a little bit of handling and a lot of refinement is all I need/want at this point in life. I think the GS fits that bill just fine.
Of course, MY opinion Bit. Don't blow a microchip.
EDIT: I'm well aware of MagnaRide and I respect it (wish Lexus would offer something similar as a stand alone option), but I don't think GM "developed" it according to that article. Seems like it's a Delphi development (no specifics on how much if anything GM had to do with it directly??), Chinese owned and was simply used by GM first. So it's just as much Ferrari's as it is GM's now...which is to say, not much.
I'm not trying to say that the GS is dynamically superior or more fun to drive than the ATS or CTS. They're great cars. I think Cadillac is simply trying to copy the BMW playbook with a somewhat American flavor. Which is OK, they're doing a good job, just not my thing. I don't need or want sporty anymore. I have a car that's plenty "sporty", a 2012 Mustang GT 6-speed which would clobber any standard ATS or 3-Series variant. I'm over it.
All I'm really saying is, TO ME, a base GS at $48k is a better deal and more appealing than a loaded-out 2.0 ATS. And, in general, I'm surprised at how quickly the entry-level models have approached $50k. Hell, if I wanted to buy American again and have it be sporty, I would much rather have the new Chevy SS sedan at $45K than a $45K ATS! I'm a tall guy (6'2), so a nice mid-size sedan with a little bit of handling and a lot of refinement is all I need/want at this point in life. I think the GS fits that bill just fine.
Of course, MY opinion Bit. Don't blow a microchip.
EDIT: I'm well aware of MagnaRide and I respect it (wish Lexus would offer something similar as a stand alone option), but I don't think GM "developed" it according to that article. Seems like it's a Delphi development (no specifics on how much if anything GM had to do with it directly??), Chinese owned and was simply used by GM first. So it's just as much Ferrari's as it is GM's now...which is to say, not much.
Great post.
Looking at sales the ATS is around 3k a month....I wonder where are the people screaming "OMG IT DOESN"T OUTSELL 3 SERIES IT FAILS/SUCKS" like they do the IS/GS Its clear the ATS has its niche and good for it.
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Blueprint
Looking at sales the ATS is around 3k a month.....
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
3K a month, IMO, is not bad for a recently-introduced car directly competing with a sport-sedan icon like the 3-series, and even more so considering that until very recently Cadillac (improperly and unfairly, IMO) was considered a gray-hair company. Yes, I know that, in the review, I used the term "Grandpa's DTS" several times. The DeVille/DTS, in fact, did sell mostly to seniors....but that was not necesarily true of other Cadillacs.
Matter fact thanks for reminding me, I was supposed to rent one for awhile now.
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
#58
Lexus Champion
EDIT: I'm well aware of MagnaRide and I respect it (wish Lexus would offer something similar as a stand alone option), but I don't think GM "developed" it according to that article. Seems like it's a Delphi development (no specifics on how much if anything GM had to do with it directly??), Chinese owned and was simply used by GM first. So it's just as much Ferrari's as it is GM's now...which is to say, not much.
The MagneRide system was developed in the late-1990s/early-2000s and first used on GM cars. Whether it was developed by GM engineers or Delphi engineers (considering the time-frame, likely originally developed by GM engineers in cooperation with parts-supplier engineers) makes little difference, but the patent was owned by Delphi and acquired by the Chinese following bankruptcy.
This happens all the time. Toyota and Aisin developed the first Power-Split Device (eCVT transmission for the Toyota Hybrid System); Aisin was eventually allowed to sell the PSD to Ford for use in Ford's first hybrids. Ford and a supplier developed that kick-to-open tailgate on the Escape; Ford has exclusive use of the technology for the first few years at which time the supplier will be allowed to sell it to other auto-manufacturers. The patent is likely owned by the supplier.
#59
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I think Cadillac is simply trying to copy the BMW playbook with a somewhat American flavor. Which is OK, they're doing a good job, just not my thing.
All I'm really saying is, TO ME, a base GS at $48k is a better deal and more appealing than a loaded-out 2.0 ATS. And, in general, I'm surprised at how quickly the entry-level models have approached $50k.
also, good luck getting a GS base version. just looked at orlando inventory and they don't have any. they start at $54k (with dealer fee) + tax ($57k). http://www.yourlexusdealer.com/yourl...delSubGroup=GS