Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Perhaps your notion of an entry level luxury sport sedan is wrong seeing as how you're the only one arguing in this thread against everyone else.

I'm talking about a performance comparison. Not options of added tech, nor fluff.

Speaking of which, where's that CT you supposedly own?

LexFather

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

your choice of course, but they're very different vehicles. driving a GS and any of these smaller luxury cars will make the difference immediately obvious. i no longer find mid-large size sedans 'sporty'. sure some of them are fast, and some of them handle well (think M5), but they only handle well considering their humongous weight. physics and gravity isn't suddenly erased. driving a lighter smaller car is, to me at least, MUCH more enjoyable, unless one is just cruising down the highway.

again, your opinion, but they're gaining more and more respect with each new model. GM has some of the best engine, transmission, and suspension technology, and their suspension tech is as good or better than anyone else. so good that even ferrari uses it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagneRide
the ATS/CTS/XTS are very competitive, and the auto world has changed. cadillac is on a roll and while not considered the standard of the world, that hasn't been the case for probably 50 years.

mmarshall

In my recent 2014 Chevy Impala review, I was quite pleased at both the powertrain smoothness (3.6L V6) and the ride/handling compromise on that car. I could drive that car all day long and enjoy every minute of it.



I don't want to sound too picky here, Paul, but I'd say about 35-40 years or so, not 50. Cadillac, in some ways, was actually at its peak in the late 1950s through the mid-60s.....and continued to build some excellent luxobarges for several years after that. Build quality and interior materials, however, (like with the rest of GM's full-size cars) clearly started to drop in the 1970s....and I covered some of Cadillac's classic fails of the 1980s in the Overview section of the review.

IS350jet

They are both 2.5L engines. One has 202 HP, the other, 204. They are both compact, RWD, 4 door sedans. They are perfect competitors, live with it.

Toys4RJill

You can't get a performance or fully loaded ATS with the 2.5 I4, and you also can't get AWD with 2.5 I4. Keep in mind that the 2.5 V6 in the IS is available in all packages including AWD and F-Sport.

mmarshall

Thanks, IS350jet. Glad you enjoy my reviews. I put a lot of time and attention into them. They are not always perfect, though...sometimes misspelled words, typos, and other imperfections get through that I don't catch.

BTW, some auto journalist/reviewers that I personally have a high opinion of are Top Gear's James May, Rich Ceppos (now retired) of both Car and Driver and Autoweek magazine, John Davis (who I casually know) of the Motorweek TV show, and Peter Egan, who likes to work on old sports-car projects and writes the "Side Glances" column in Road and Track magazine. These gentlemen seem to be credible auto-enthuisiasts who, IMO, definitely do a better-than-average job in their work.

SecPole14

Yeah, my opinion. Don't get so up in arms about posts like that, I'm not going to type "IMHO" after every statement. I assume that I'm reading an opinion unless someone is aggressively trying to prove otherwise.

I'm not trying to say that the GS is dynamically superior or more fun to drive than the ATS or CTS. They're great cars. I think Cadillac is simply trying to copy the BMW playbook with a somewhat American flavor. Which is OK, they're doing a good job, just not my thing. I don't need or want sporty anymore. I have a car that's plenty "sporty", a 2012 Mustang GT 6-speed which would clobber any standard ATS or 3-Series variant. I'm over it.

All I'm really saying is, TO ME, a base GS at $48k is a better deal and more appealing than a loaded-out 2.0 ATS. And, in general, I'm surprised at how quickly the entry-level models have approached $50k. Hell, if I wanted to buy American again and have it be sporty, I would much rather have the new Chevy SS sedan at $45K than a $45K ATS! I'm a tall guy (6'2), so a nice mid-size sedan with a little bit of handling and a lot of refinement is all I need/want at this point in life. I think the GS fits that bill just fine.

Of course, MY opinion Bit. Don't blow a microchip.

EDIT: I'm well aware of MagnaRide and I respect it (wish Lexus would offer something similar as a stand alone option), but I don't think GM "developed" it according to that article. Seems like it's a Delphi development (no specifics on how much if anything GM had to do with it directly??), Chinese owned and was simply used by GM first. So it's just as much Ferrari's as it is GM's now...which is to say, not much.

LexFather

Dude you gotta email me

Great post.

Looking at sales the ATS is around 3k a month....I wonder where are the people screaming "OMG IT DOESN"T OUTSELL 3 SERIES IT FAILS/SUCKS" like they do the IS/GS Its clear the ATS has its niche and good for it.

mmarshall

3K a month, IMO, is not bad for a recently-introduced car directly competing with a sport-sedan icon like the 3-series, and even more so considering that until very recently Cadillac (improperly and unfairly, IMO) was considered a gray-hair company. Yes, I know that, in the review, I used the term "Grandpa's DTS" several times. The DeVille/DTS, in fact, did sell mostly to seniors....but that was not necesarily true of other Cadillacs.

LexFather

Agreed. Not bad at all. I haven't seen any young people in them, to me its like the CTS, for older people that wanted a Caddy in the 30k range. I don't really care who buys them, its a nice car and well done.

Matter fact thanks for reminding me, I was supposed to rent one for awhile now.

mmarshall

When you do, give us your impressions of it. You'll probably have a chance to keep it longer and put more miles on it than I did.

Sulu

Delphi is an auto-parts supplier and a major supplier to GM. It was part of GM (Delphi as a company did not exist) until the late-1990s when GM spun it off as an independent company. A few years later, it ran into financial troubles, and went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, when bits and pieces were sold off, including the suspension and brakes business to BeijingWest.

The MagneRide system was developed in the late-1990s/early-2000s and first used on GM cars. Whether it was developed by GM engineers or Delphi engineers (considering the time-frame, likely originally developed by GM engineers in cooperation with parts-supplier engineers) makes little difference, but the patent was owned by Delphi and acquired by the Chinese following bankruptcy.

This happens all the time. Toyota and Aisin developed the first Power-Split Device (eCVT transmission for the Toyota Hybrid System); Aisin was eventually allowed to sell the PSD to Ford for use in Ford's first hybrids. Ford and a supplier developed that kick-to-open tailgate on the Escape; Ford has exclusive use of the technology for the first few years at which time the supplier will be allowed to sell it to other auto-manufacturers. The patent is likely owned by the supplier.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

didn't get up in arms at all, that's your interpretation. but statements like "Cadillac are making fools of themselves" is rather bold but i know it's just your opinion, so it's all good.

all good, that's quite different from the prior statement.

a loaded 3 series hits 60k - it's less about the size of the car these days, than the sophistication and feature set.

also, good luck getting a GS base version. just looked at orlando inventory and they don't have any. they start at $54k (with dealer fee) + tax ($57k). http://www.yourlexusdealer.com/yourl...delSubGroup=GS

ArmyofOne

Saw one of these in DFW this past weekend. Sharp car. Good Job Caddy!