Blackraven

I would still choose the S65 over the S63 anyday..................but that's because I always like and prefer to GO ALL OUT.

The only reason to choose the S63 over the S65.......is if you want to get 4MATIC AWD........but the problem is that it's only available in LHD.

As much as it is a status symbol, driving an LHD car in an RHD country such as Japan is a pain imho.

Dave600hL

If import taxes were the issue, then why up until the Japanese yen decided to take a dump was every single Lexus in the line up more expensive in Japan?

No, for some reason people just accept the fact that things are marked up so high here.

I was buying a business server (Dell)with 529 client pc's and I got a quote from a U.S. company and the server alone was nearly $200,000US cheaper than in Japan on a $600,000US server. I went to order it and as soon as they found out I was in Japan all communication stopped and they said deal with our office in Japan. I could understand this if I was asking them to do the mainatnence, but I was going to the IT guys do all the required maintenance in house. Still they would not sell to to me. They are effectively stealing from us, not to mention that we have to pay them $15,000 a month maintinence package and that does not include parts broken. They theoretically may never even have to see the server if it never breaks down. What is even worse, in five years time I have to pay them the same amount for a new server even if the old one is working like a charm, b/c they won't service a machine past five years. I can tell you now we get ripped on business servers here. And I tried other companies, but they are all in on this sort of price fixing.Sorry for the rant, but I am not a happy camper due to this.
Yeah, all cars here are 180km speed limited, it is the law. So anything over 100 mph is pretty much useless. But you can get the limiters taken off illegally and if you get caught they really don't do anything to you.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you are right, tax is one thing but it's not the real problem on some of these very odd price hike on certain specific products for no reason. similar things happen to some other items in some other countries but i do know in japan, somehow things are more expensive just because. obviously you got hit bad (servers and cars)....

silly idea though, if you don't even care about having their support since you have your own IT guy, why don't you have someone in the US buy everything and then ship over to you?

and back on topic, i really really hope to see you comment more on the s63 after some drive!

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

things are expensive in japan for many reasons but one huge one is the country has almost no natural resources (energy and metals to name two big ones!). agriculture is also somewhat limited with scarce expensive land, so food is imported a lot too. all these things make japan a very expensive country to live in. then you combine that with a monumentally incompetent government and collusion with 'big companies' it's no wonder things are expensive. japan has the highest government debt per capita in the world. of course the u.s. is no position to brag with its vast debt but the energy, resources and agriculture alone are enormous helping things some not to mention innovation. japan obviously makes a great many high quality products, but they still don't do software that well, or medical, or pharmaceutical, etc.

not bashing japan, it's an amazing country and rightfully proud of the high quality service and products it has, despite the lack of natural resources. australia wouldn't be what it is if it didn't export so much iron ore and food to japan.

Blackraven

I thought the 180 km/h only applied to Japan-made and Japan-market vehicles.



For foreign cars like Porsche or a BMW M5 F10, the limit does not apply (at least from what I'm told). The only thing the import brands add to their Japan-bound models are stuff such as a VICS module and the ETC card slot (for toll collection).

Speaking of speed limit, 180 km/h shouldn't be difficult to achieve. I mean, I don't mean to brag but I already reached the following speeds in various cars:
-Toyota Fortuner = 160 km/h (100 mph)
-Toyota Corolla Altis = 162 km/h @ 5,000 RPM (man that 4-speed AT is really pushing it lol )
-Lexus IS300 (2IS) = 110 kmh inside an urban city/CBD ; empty road
-Peugeot 508 GT 2.2 Diesel = 170 km/h (5th gear)

For that matter, I'm actually looking forward to it whenever I rent a car in Japan.......so I can take it to 180 km/h on the Wangan Line (Daiba route)

TangoRed

Dave 600hL-

As luck would have it, I drove both a 2014 S63 and an S65 this morning. How did you feel about the S63's MCT transmission at low speeds? It wasn't bad in comfort, but I could definitely feel the clutches engaging/disengaging in stop & go traffic. You kinda had to work around it to smooth things out. The 2015 CLS63 got new hardware and software for its MCT transmission. I wonder if yours is going to come equipped with that update. Apparently it's smoother and more responsive to the shift paddles.In any event, it was quite athletic feeling and I really enjoyed it. That V8 engine note is intoxicating no matter what AMG its in.

I loved the S65. I think I just like the idea of having a V12 sedan. It was loud at startup but much quieter than the S63 at idle/around town. Didn't see that coming given it's the top dog. It was also smoother in traffic since it has the torque converter transmission. You could definitely feel the extra weight up front though and it takes a bit for the turbos to spool, unlike the S63.

Blackraven

Very informative stuff.

Interestingly enough though, opinions may vary on this subject.

For instance, *Batman* (who is a member here on ClubLexus and owns a BMW M5 F10) told me over at Bimmerpost that he prefers the S63 over the S65 on the basis that the MCT gearbox is more superior compared to the 7G TRONIC PLUS unit.

I guess different strokes for different folks.

Personally though, between choosing:
-S63 with a V8 Twin Turbo and Dual Clutch Gearbox
-S65 with a V12 Twin Turbo and AMG-enhacnced 7G TRONIC PLUS automatic with Speedshift

I would still choose the S65

IMHO, I still choose the more powerful engine (even if I compromise on choosing a more 'inferior' gearbox)......though in my case, I wouldn't call it inferior either.

For most day-to-day driving, you won't notice much of a difference. The only time dual-clutch beats conventional automatic is only during track or racing applications. For basic city driving and highway/motorway cruising, the conventional auto won't lag far behind.

Just my opinion

TangoRed

Very interesting indeed. The S63's transmission certainly shifted faster and gave a more sporting feel so I can see where opinions could be split on the matter.

Also remember this isn't a dual clutch transmission like the Getrag unit in the SLS and AMG GT. The MCT transmission is basically a conventional 7-speed AMG 7G-TRONIC but with a wet pack startup clutch in place of the torque converter. Very unique design.

gengar

The S63 doesn't have a dual clutch gearbox. MCT is not a dual clutch gearbox.

Dave600hL

I is way better than the roughness of the hybrid motor switching on on the LS600. Honestly I did not find it bad at all. But I was not really paying much attention to it, most of my focus when driving was on the pulling power it had. At low speeds I was trying to figure out how to use that little thing on the console. I did however really like the LCD screens.

My bad, I just looked up the speed limiters and it seems that Benz have them from 210km to 250km. Something I was surprised to see was that GTR has the option to get it taken off. I don't know why, but I just don't like that car.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

some very good posts!

Blackraven

Import cars (non-Japanese) don't seem to be required to do so.

I think MB Japan even offers an option to raise the limiter to something like 300 km/h haha.........though I don't think you could do something like that on Japanese public roads

As for the R35 GT-R (Japan-spec JDM version), the speed is limited to 180 km/h.........BUT if the GPS Sat-Nav detects that you are in a Nissan-approved race track, the speed limiter will be disabled when you are in such 'derestricted zones'.

Oh right my bad on that.

So yeah, both are automatics but the S63 uses a wet pack clutch while the S65 still uses a torque converter (?)

Speaking of MB Getrag DCT:
I remember Chris Harris mentioned that the unit in the SLS Gullwing was an early generation unit so MB AMG had to detune it in order to protect the gearbox/transmission unit, driveshaft as well as other components.

For the new AMG GT S however, the unit has been improved and strengthened so there are no more restrictions in place.

gengar

Exactly. Except for the wet pack clutch, MCT is otherwise identical to a typical automatic transmission - planetary gears and all.

BTW, my point was not to correct you factually - just want to make sure no one goes and drives the S63 and wonders why it's such a "lousy" "dual clutch" or something.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

if i was in the market for one of these wonderful sedans, i'd go for the v12 - like another slogan... there is no substitute.

Blackraven

Hehe noted