Lexus wins another major handling comparison (this time with the 3IS IS350 f sport)
04-29-13, 09:44 AM
#61
It is important to recognize that the 335 is now easily over 50k when you load it with essential options. At that price point it needs to appeal to a broader buyer base, and it only made sense for it to lose some of its harshness and gain some refinement. My wife had a 2010 335 coupe for almost three years, and while it was a ferocious car, with insane throttle and steering responses - it had a punishing ride, its steering was way too quick for comfortable laid back high speed cruising. My wife never took this car for long trips - she drove my GS or our 745 when we still had it on those occasions. When her car was destroyed by Sandy, as much as she liked it, she didn't want to consider getting another 335 because of those drawbacks.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
Scared the hell out of me the first couple of times.
04-29-13, 10:01 AM
#62
It is important to recognize that the 335 is now easily over 50k when you load it with essential options. At that price point it needs to appeal to a broader buyer base, and it only made sense for it to lose some of its harshness and gain some refinement. My wife had a 2010 335 coupe for almost three years, and while it was a ferocious car, with insane throttle and steering responses - it had a punishing ride, its steering was way too quick for comfortable laid back high speed cruising. My wife never took this car for long trips - she drove my GS or our 745 when we still had it on those occasions. When her car was destroyed by Sandy, as much as she liked it, she didn't want to consider getting another 335 because of those drawbacks.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
sure, but article points out that Lexus has better ride while being sportier - so it is both, at the same time... thats sophisticated suspension, used to be winning point for BMW, and now it is the opposite.
04-29-13, 10:09 AM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
It is important to recognize that the 335 is now easily over 50k when you load it with essential options. At that price point it needs to appeal to a broader buyer base, and it only made sense for it to lose some of its harshness and gain some refinement. My wife had a 2010 335 coupe for almost three years, and while it was a ferocious car, with insane throttle and steering responses - it had a punishing ride, its steering was way too quick for comfortable laid back high speed cruising. My wife never took this car for long trips - she drove my GS or our 745 when we still had it on those occasions. When her car was destroyed by Sandy, as much as she liked it, she didn't want to consider getting another 335 because of those drawbacks.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
BMW still has the 1 series, and they can keep that as their hardcore model. The 3 series is now a more grown up car, and rightfully so.
04-29-13, 10:28 AM
#64
1 series is a toy car...too small. They have a car for non-hard core 3 series fans..the 328 and the ride is awesome. Or you can get the 335 without the sport package which calms the rides down. The f30 made too many compromises...they need better options on their suspension options for sure. Obviously, the IS350 did a much better job this time around as the F sport seems to cater to enthusiasts while the regular suspension is nice and comfy.
04-29-13, 10:37 AM
#65
And this is great news for Lexus, they are doing excellent job with their new models. I only with they would speed up their development and offer more variations. They really need coupes, convertibles, V8 and F models (not F sport) and a proper SUV. There is simply nothing from Lexus at this point that does it for me and that I would buy. Since this is a thread about the new IS - they did an excellent job with steering, suspension and interior, but they still need to offer a coupe variant and a slight bump in power would be very welcome as well.
04-29-13, 01:47 PM
#66
Could it be that the recent comparos with the 3/5 series result in BMW losses because they are equipping the 335s/535s instead of 320s/528s?
I think the bigger engines would lead to more mass, thus resulting in worse handling. I wonder if the difference would be significant/noticeable in comparing the smaller engines with competitors.
Either way, good job Lexus.
I think the bigger engines would lead to more mass, thus resulting in worse handling. I wonder if the difference would be significant/noticeable in comparing the smaller engines with competitors.
Either way, good job Lexus.
More traction needed to turn the car with less traction available means the car will understeer relative to the 328i, which is what is seen to happen.
Same issue in the IS250 vs IS350, although no one ever complained much because the 2IS wasn't ever a serious contender in driving dynamics to the E90.
04-29-13, 02:18 PM
#67
And this is great news for Lexus, they are doing excellent job with their new models. I only with they would speed up their development and offer more variations. They really need coupes, convertibles, V8 and F models (not F sport) and a proper SUV. There is simply nothing from Lexus at this point that does it for me and that I would buy. Since this is a thread about the new IS - they did an excellent job with steering, suspension and interior, but they still need to offer a coupe variant and a slight bump in power would be very welcome as well.
04-29-13, 04:24 PM
#68
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Having been a former owner of two Lexes, and chose to purchase the 2010 IS350 over the 335i and S4 about 3 years ago and now own a 335i, I'll give my thoughts on this...
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
04-29-13, 04:53 PM
#69
Having been a former owner of two Lexes, and chose to purchase the 2010 IS350 over the 335i and S4 about 3 years ago and now own a 335i, I'll give my thoughts on this...
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
they didnt drop F either... waiting for new gen... just like we are still waiting for new M3 and 4 series.
BMW was long heralded for having sophisticated suspensions that were both supple and hard at the same time... this is how 3 and 5 series won many comparo's in the past vs for instance Lexus, that didnt do hard suspensions well since you could feel every bump with them... now these days it is Lexus that has sophisticated suspension.
Pretty much all changed when Toyoda came into power, and with updated IS-F's.... then all new GS and now all new IS. That platform seems to be awesome.
Now I do hope they make their NX as good in its class as well.
04-29-13, 05:21 PM
#70
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pretty sure they mention that 335i had "optional package" for handling... it also had potenza's vs turanzas n F-Sport... :-).
they didnt drop F either... waiting for new gen... just like we are still waiting for new M3 and 4 series.
BMW was long heralded for having sophisticated suspensions that were both supple and hard at the same time... this is how 3 and 5 series won many comparo's in the past vs for instance Lexus, that didnt do hard suspensions well since you could feel every bump with them... now these days it is Lexus that has sophisticated suspension.
Pretty much all changed when Toyoda came into power, and with updated IS-F's.... then all new GS and now all new IS. That platform seems to be awesome.
Now I do hope they make their NX as good in its class as well.
they didnt drop F either... waiting for new gen... just like we are still waiting for new M3 and 4 series.
BMW was long heralded for having sophisticated suspensions that were both supple and hard at the same time... this is how 3 and 5 series won many comparo's in the past vs for instance Lexus, that didnt do hard suspensions well since you could feel every bump with them... now these days it is Lexus that has sophisticated suspension.
Pretty much all changed when Toyoda came into power, and with updated IS-F's.... then all new GS and now all new IS. That platform seems to be awesome.
Now I do hope they make their NX as good in its class as well.
04-29-13, 07:50 PM
#73
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Thread Starter
Having been a former owner of two Lexes, and chose to purchase the 2010 IS350 over the 335i and S4 about 3 years ago and now own a 335i, I'll give my thoughts on this...
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
The 335i won by one point. That is all. I think making it sound decisive is plain silly. The Lexus won due to better subjective ratings, whereas the 3IS fell short on objective ratings in most areas. I am a little disappointed that the 3IS doesn't have a power increase and hit a 14.0 in the QM. I see that as a big let down for prospective buyer. I hit 13.6 in my 2IS on a very hot day in NC. Let's face it, "fast" sells well, IMHO. You'll notice the people on the BMW forum (link posted on the first page of this thread, I think) care more about the 13.3 @ 105 than the comments about handling.
I also wonder which handling package the 335i M-sport had. It may have had just the M-Sport suspension, or the Dynamic Handling Package, which is an added option. The DHP seems to address and correct the issues they mentioned in the analysis. Seeing how the 335i was priced as tested, I believe it was without. There have been multiple tests where the 335i scored over .90 on the skidpad. Just something to keep in mind.
Overall, Lexus is going in an interesting direction. I think it is great in the performance aspect, which was obviously aimed at BMW, and is doing excellent. It's good to know Lexus cares about feedback and can make a better product... but dropping the IS-F has me puzzled. Weird. Honestly, I like my 335i more than I liked my IS350. It really isn't even that close. It is that good. I never really understood until I drove it extensively. However, I would take an IS-F over an M3 any day of the week. It is just too cool. Maybe I am just plain weird.
Congrats to the 3IS. I know it will excellent for years to come. The front of the 3IS looks two generations ahead of my 335i. I can't wait to drive one. I'll be interested in what it runs in the lightning lap. Enjoy future 3IS owners. If any of you are in the Augusta, GA area and want to compare, I'd love to meet up and check it out. Lexus owners, I'm sure, will continue to be awesome- as they always are.
For years, BMW owners have crowed about the "magical BMW feel" that "transcends" numbers. This time the shoe is on the other foot. The 3 series has lost that subjective feel according to the consensus feedback of the C & D editors and also lost the objective slalom handling numbers.
This focus by the 3 series owners on the straightline performance numbers of the 335i strikes me like they're using horsepower as a consolation prize for a flawed driving machine.
04-29-13, 08:10 PM
#74
the estimated price for the IS in that test was $49k, but with the official pricing a IS350 F Sport + Navi/ML is $46.3k. Then you notice in the test the 335 is $51.5k
The big thing is the adjustable suspension. Want a more luxurious ride? Keep it in normal. Want a sporty ride? Sport+ time. Being able to change whenever you want is an amazing feature.
The big thing is the adjustable suspension. Want a more luxurious ride? Keep it in normal. Want a sporty ride? Sport+ time. Being able to change whenever you want is an amazing feature.