PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

How much would you pay to have (more) leather surfaces, soft touch plastics, wood paneling, French stitching, more solid compartments (glove, center console, etc), and the like?

In an age where all car companies are cutting corners, how much would you pay to prevent cutting corners on interior quality?


(A) For example, take the ES350 and ES300h. Many have complained about the materials used for the interior. The car starts at $36,370 and $39,250 respesctively.

If you choose $5000 more, that will make the ES $41,370 and $44,250 base, so we're talking about a $50,000+ ES with options. Think about the competition at that price range. The Acura RL starts at $35,905, and the Cadillac XTS starts at $44,075. Think about the GS350, which starts at $47,250. Will ES pricing stay competitive?


(B) Let's go down the totem pole: take the Rav4 which starts at $23,300. Hard plastics abound. If you choose $2,500 more, the base Rav4 goes up to $25,800.

The Honda CR-V starts at $22,795, the Buick Encore starts at $24,200, and the Ford Escape starts at $22,470. Can the Rav4 maintain sales numbers with a $25k+ base sticker price?



I think there has been a great deal of discussion regarding the quality of new cars on the market. The ES and Rav4 get particular remarks. The BMW X1, VW Passat, Ford Mustang, Scion FRS, Chevy Spark, Acura RDX, and many others have been mentioned in the forum.

What does it take to upgrade materials? $1000? $2500? $5000? $7500?

DISCUSS.

Give us examples and comparisons...



NOTE: "I want a Mercedes interior for a Hyundai price" is not good discussion...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

For a company like Lexus that touts doing the right thing, they've certainly strayed from the Lexus Covenant. Cutting corners on cars like the ES is just a slap in the face to their consumers and everything they stand for. The 2006 ES330 may not have been the coolest car, the sharpest designed nor a handler. But the quality of materials, fit and finish was superb. Nothing came close to offering a serene (if not somewhat sedate) ride for the price. Fast forward and the bean counters are taking over. Every time I hop into a 2013 ES I feel like I'm in a cardboad box with a L emblem



On a side note, most BMW interiors aren't all that either. The $75K 550i I'm looking at doesn't have real leather, but they do give you the option of ceramic controls for $500 which IMO is well worth getting rid of some of those poor silver plastics on the shifter and some *****

mmarshall

A number of cars today, though, have noticeably better interiors than just a few years ago. This includes vehicles like the Toyota Avalon, Cadillac CTS/XTS, most of the full-size GM trucks/SUVs, Chevy Cruze, Ford Explorer, Chrysler 200/300, Dodge Dart/Charger/Durango, Jeep Gran Cherokee, virtually all Dodge Ram trucks, Infiniti G-series, and a number of others.

CDNROCKIES

Go visit the Porsche website if you want to figure out exavtly what those upgrades look like. It is easy to add $60K to a 911 if you want every little bit of extras.

They are the most customizable manufacturer which allows you to make the decision that the OP is questioning.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it isn't just about cost, it's also about WEIGHT. and it's also about cost being shifted from one area (materials) to other aspects (features, fuel economy / drivetrain complexity, safety mandates).

Mr. Burns

Better interior materials shouldn't cost that much more. Even $1000 could greatly improve an interior. An improved ES interior should never cost $5000.

pbm317

What are you basing your judgments on? Do you develop and procure materials for automotive interiors?

trexlexus

Reading that made me think:

The degree to which "interior quality" is improved is a very subjective matter. I think we can all agree that everyone has different opinions, so that whenever one sees something as an upgrade, another might see it as a downgrade, or cheap.

Granted, there are some exceptions.

The OP asked for what price someone would be willing to pay for an interior material upgrade, so that presents a wide range. As Mr. Burns said, 1k can do a great deal of improvement, cost-wise. But add 5k to the price, we might be even talking about gold plated steering wheels!

I think it is pretty safe to say that there will never be an upgrade in which everybody is pleased. After all, with the great praise we have been hearing regarding the 06 ES330, something must have made Lexus change. Perhaps some customers were not happy with the interior of the 06 model, but others were enamored with it.

BMW's lowest 128i has a very ugly interior design while the lowest Lexus CT has a much better layout, and is easier on the eyes. The CT starts around 32k, while the 1 goes from 31k. A small diffence, but the 1 can be optioned higher. It is also interesting to note the new 320i starts at 32,550. Exactly 500 more than the CT, and there have been some complaints against the quality of that one too.

Cost cutting seems to affect the lower luxury cars presently. It will be interesting to see to what degree RR and Bentley will start cost cutting of their own in the future.

speedflex

I still have not been inside the new ES. What really are the quality issues everyone keeps mentioning?

mmarshall

After the superb interior of the 4Gen ES (2001-2006), neither the 5Gen or 6Gen, IMO, can really compare inside. But I recently reviewed a new 6Gen ES, and the new interior, while clearly not up to that of the 4Gen, wasn't really my beef. My main concern with the new ES is that Lexus took what was one of the few really comfortable cars on the road today and not only firmed up the underpinnings but also seemed to have taken out some sound-insulation as well (Consumer Reports agreed). For an ES, IMO, that is unacceptable.....Lexus already has the IS for the sport-sedan crowd, and the ES, by its very mission, is supposed to be a soft, quiet, plush, smooth-riding alternative to the LS, at a substantially lower cost.

LexBob2

On the other other hand, the changes aren't having any negative effect on sales of the new ES. Sales thru March = 17k units +97%. Consumers are still buying them. So for now there isn't any motivation for Toyota/Lexus to change things. Maybe in another model year or two when sales taper off.

mmarshall

Oh, I certainly agree. Old habits are often hard to break, even when the sugar starts to lose some of its sweetness.

Conversely, on the other side of the coin, it took people some years to finally admit that the Koreans could finally compete, and to start buying Hyundais and Kias freely. Some people, even today (and I still sometimes deal with this when they ask me for auto-buying advice) refuse to see that, despite the obvious.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I also do not see any major issues with the ES interior. Yes, the plastics are a bit harder, but last generation, they were too spongey and people hated that too. If you want midsize and a nice interior, get a GS.

spwolf

it wont ever change because competition is worse :-)

trexlexus

You're inclined to believe that ZERO change will be made to the ES in the upcoming years when updates roll around?..