Ward's 10 Best Interiors released
04-20-13, 07:15 AM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
Its not hampering sales, like I said its like they are trying to see how much they can gut the quality of the interior before it does hurt sales.
People want to buy "a Lexus", and thus the entry level Lexus will always sell well, probably whatever they put out. Look at the absolute crap MB has put out in previous C classes, or BMW with previous 3 series. People buy them. People buy clothes from WalMart and Target too, lots of clothes. People go out to a meal at McDonalds too. Lots of people.
My issue is that as a Lexus enthusiast I am sad to see Lexus, a company that was founded on quality over quantity, high grad materials and build over flash and gizmos, get to this point. As I've said before, I don't think there is one Toyota model I would buy. Over the last 10 years or so, especially the last 5 years, Toyota has really become the carmaker that makes the crappiest interior, the cars that feel the most "appliance like". I do not want to see that happen to Lexus. I don't want to see them deliver style and look over substance, and I feel that the 2013 ES is all look and no substance. As an enthusiast of the brand, it makes me angry.
I had a CT loaner a month or so ago too, that made me pretty angry too...
People want to buy "a Lexus", and thus the entry level Lexus will always sell well, probably whatever they put out. Look at the absolute crap MB has put out in previous C classes, or BMW with previous 3 series. People buy them. People buy clothes from WalMart and Target too, lots of clothes. People go out to a meal at McDonalds too. Lots of people.
My issue is that as a Lexus enthusiast I am sad to see Lexus, a company that was founded on quality over quantity, high grad materials and build over flash and gizmos, get to this point. As I've said before, I don't think there is one Toyota model I would buy. Over the last 10 years or so, especially the last 5 years, Toyota has really become the carmaker that makes the crappiest interior, the cars that feel the most "appliance like". I do not want to see that happen to Lexus. I don't want to see them deliver style and look over substance, and I feel that the 2013 ES is all look and no substance. As an enthusiast of the brand, it makes me angry.
I had a CT loaner a month or so ago too, that made me pretty angry too...
04-20-13, 07:21 AM
#47
As far as Hyundai, GM, Honda, etc... You can have them all. I couldn't even fit comfortably in the Accord. I'm 6' 4", which isn't really big by today's standards, but they don't seem to know that. I have the same problem in my wife's CR-V. They need to allow more seat travel, at the very least. GM, while improving, still makes the worst interiors. If you think the ES uses too much plastic, check out the Lacrosse. I actually came from a Hyundai and the Azera was at the top of my list. Yes, it has more features and is much cheaper than the rest. There's a reason it's cheaper. Drive one and you'll see what I mean.
04-20-13, 08:32 AM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
I hear this a lot in other forums. Everyone complains interiors are becoming more downmarket. I've personally not noticed it to the extent others have, but I have noticed the following (more psychology here, so get ready)...
As cars become more technically advanced and interiors are crammed with more and more displays, workable buttons, and electronic-related devices, they are giving up their "pretty" surfaces and gaining "mechanical" surfaces. What this means is areas that were once covered in wood, stylish dashboard material, or soft trim, are now covered with hard buttons or levers, shiny plastic displays, or glass screens. All those pieces I listed look like the mechanical devices they are and give up asthetics.
Jumping back to Lexus, we have consistently been getting more screens, more devices, and more electronics added to our interiors (Hey, this is what we all ask for, right?). I believe this is a big reason today's inteiors and dashboards appear cheaper. We are staring at electronics, not at decorative materials. Electronics are not pretty. They are working devices. Having trouble imagining this? A quick look at the area surrounding the gear shift lever is a perfect example. Always used to be surrounded by wood. Today? Now that area has a joystick, buttons, and is surrounded by the protective plastic that houses it. Which looks prettier? Yeah,exactly. That's just one example. Electronics rarely look artful or pretty. The rest of the dash has the same thing going on. We all want the latest and greatest electronics, but it's going to be at the expense of asthetics.
So I'll conclude by saying we are responsible for this transformation. Everyone *****es and complains about having the latest tech stuff. Now that we have it, it's no better looking than our cell phones, DVD players, and ipods.
As cars become more technically advanced and interiors are crammed with more and more displays, workable buttons, and electronic-related devices, they are giving up their "pretty" surfaces and gaining "mechanical" surfaces. What this means is areas that were once covered in wood, stylish dashboard material, or soft trim, are now covered with hard buttons or levers, shiny plastic displays, or glass screens. All those pieces I listed look like the mechanical devices they are and give up asthetics.
Jumping back to Lexus, we have consistently been getting more screens, more devices, and more electronics added to our interiors (Hey, this is what we all ask for, right?). I believe this is a big reason today's inteiors and dashboards appear cheaper. We are staring at electronics, not at decorative materials. Electronics are not pretty. They are working devices. Having trouble imagining this? A quick look at the area surrounding the gear shift lever is a perfect example. Always used to be surrounded by wood. Today? Now that area has a joystick, buttons, and is surrounded by the protective plastic that houses it. Which looks prettier? Yeah,exactly. That's just one example. Electronics rarely look artful or pretty. The rest of the dash has the same thing going on. We all want the latest and greatest electronics, but it's going to be at the expense of asthetics.
So I'll conclude by saying we are responsible for this transformation. Everyone *****es and complains about having the latest tech stuff. Now that we have it, it's no better looking than our cell phones, DVD players, and ipods.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-20-13 at 08:41 AM.
04-20-13, 09:53 AM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
You obviously haven't been in a 2013 Avalon, or else you've only been in a base ES. The Avalon does not have higher quality materials used in their interior. Also, the only feature it has, that I can think of over the ES, is heated rear seats. They seem to use less padding in the front seats, as well. Not nearly as comfortable to drive. You can't get a panoramic sunroof and those cap-touch buttons are stupid and not glove friendly.
There is overall more padded dash and door material on the Avalon than there is on the 2013 ES. You also can only get a panoramic sunroof on the very rare UL model ES approaching $50,000. 95% of ES's do not have a panoramic sunroof.
I actually came from a Hyundai and the Azera was at the top of my list. Yes, it has more features and is much cheaper than the rest. There's a reason it's cheaper. Drive one and you'll see what I mean.
04-21-13, 11:35 AM
#50
Pole Position
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike728
As far as Hyundai, GM, Honda, etc... You can have them all. I couldn't even fit comfortably in the Accord. I'm 6' 4", which isn't really big by today's standards, but they don't seem to know that
http://ahundredyearsago.com/2012/02/...1912-and-2012/
Originally Posted by the above website
By age, 21, males now are, on average, more than 1 1/2 inches taller than they were a hundred years ago. In 1912 the average 21-year-old male was 68.25 inches (5 feet 8.25 inches) tall. Now the average male in the US is 69.9 inches (5 feet 9.9 inches) tall.
That being said, the caramel and bamboo combo on the posted pics of the GS are really impressive.
04-21-13, 12:52 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
[QUOTE=trexlexus;7895696
I haven't sat in the newer ES models yet but, can we all agree that, stylistically it is better than the outgoing model?[/QUOTE]
Yes, stylistically I prefer everything about the 2013 except the door panels and how they integrate into the dashboard.
I haven't sat in the newer ES models yet but, can we all agree that, stylistically it is better than the outgoing model?[/QUOTE]
Yes, stylistically I prefer everything about the 2013 except the door panels and how they integrate into the dashboard.
04-21-13, 02:29 PM
#52
Its not hampering sales, like I said its like they are trying to see how much they can gut the quality of the interior before it does hurt sales.
People want to buy "a Lexus", and thus the entry level Lexus will always sell well, probably whatever they put out. Look at the absolute crap MB has put out in previous C classes, or BMW with previous 3 series. People buy them. People buy clothes from WalMart and Target too, lots of clothes. People go out to a meal at McDonalds too. Lots of people.
My issue is that as a Lexus enthusiast I am sad to see Lexus, a company that was founded on quality over quantity, high grad materials and build over flash and gizmos, get to this point. As I've said before, I don't think there is one Toyota model I would buy. Over the last 10 years or so, especially the last 5 years, Toyota has really become the carmaker that makes the crappiest interior, the cars that feel the most "appliance like". I do not want to see that happen to Lexus. I don't want to see them deliver style and look over substance, and I feel that the 2013 ES is all look and no substance. As an enthusiast of the brand, it makes me angry.
I had a CT loaner a month or so ago too, that made me pretty angry too...
People want to buy "a Lexus", and thus the entry level Lexus will always sell well, probably whatever they put out. Look at the absolute crap MB has put out in previous C classes, or BMW with previous 3 series. People buy them. People buy clothes from WalMart and Target too, lots of clothes. People go out to a meal at McDonalds too. Lots of people.
My issue is that as a Lexus enthusiast I am sad to see Lexus, a company that was founded on quality over quantity, high grad materials and build over flash and gizmos, get to this point. As I've said before, I don't think there is one Toyota model I would buy. Over the last 10 years or so, especially the last 5 years, Toyota has really become the carmaker that makes the crappiest interior, the cars that feel the most "appliance like". I do not want to see that happen to Lexus. I don't want to see them deliver style and look over substance, and I feel that the 2013 ES is all look and no substance. As an enthusiast of the brand, it makes me angry.
I had a CT loaner a month or so ago too, that made me pretty angry too...
even CT and ES have nice interiors compared to other cars in class. They only suck if you compare them to GS or LS of course.
I have been in new A3 today and even top of the doors are hard plastics.
04-21-13, 02:46 PM
#53
well, with Avalon, Rav4 and Auris, they are certainly moving in right direction... those cars have nice interiors....
even CT and ES have nice interiors compared to other cars in class. They only suck if you compare them to GS or LS of course.
I have been in new A3 today and even top of the doors are hard plastics.
even CT and ES have nice interiors compared to other cars in class. They only suck if you compare them to GS or LS of course.
I have been in new A3 today and even top of the doors are hard plastics.
04-21-13, 02:57 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
I just had an ES loaner and requested it b/c of the complaints by some here. I honestly don't know what is so bad about it and its no worse than the competition. Entry level cars are simply not built like the next class up.
Y'all lost me on the ES... Yes the doors are long and plain and the center console is harder plastic but overall to me it seems like a big step over past ES models.
Y'all lost me on the ES... Yes the doors are long and plain and the center console is harder plastic but overall to me it seems like a big step over past ES models.
04-21-13, 03:16 PM
#55
Seems the middle "class" so to speak is being phased out in cars not just human society. Look at all the low end cars from Luxury automakers. Ones that used to be a few 10K more have the materials of the lower ones, meanwhile the rich get richer. Look at the new S-Class, it's phenomenal vs lower stablemates and not necessary the cheaper ones either. If you want the goods you need the $$$. Otherwise all your paying for is a badge nowadays. BMW interiors anyone?
Gotta say, CLA looks great live... looks a lot more expensive than crappy C class next to it. And it was $19k more expensive (35%)! I did not get to sit inside as they locked them (lol), but interior looks "shiny" of course, with lots of shiny plastics that might look good when you sit in it once but might wear not so good. Not much leather or anything else thats really nice.
04-21-13, 03:56 PM
#56
Driver
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems the middle "class" so to speak is being phased out in cars not just human society. Look at all the low end cars from Luxury automakers. Ones that used to be a few 10K more have the materials of the lower ones, meanwhile the rich get richer. Look at the new S-Class, it's phenomenal vs lower stablemates and not necessary the cheaper ones either. If you want the goods you need the $$$. Otherwise all your paying for is a badge nowadays. BMW interiors anyone?
04-21-13, 04:47 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
04-21-13, 09:01 PM
#58
on the other hand, I also just saw CLA next to C class.... both brand new (some kind of local car exhibition so got to see various brands)...
Gotta say, CLA looks great live... looks a lot more expensive than crappy C class next to it. And it was $19k more expensive (35%)! I did not get to sit inside as they locked them (lol), but interior looks "shiny" of course, with lots of shiny plastics that might look good when you sit in it once but might wear not so good. Not much leather or anything else thats really nice.
Gotta say, CLA looks great live... looks a lot more expensive than crappy C class next to it. And it was $19k more expensive (35%)! I did not get to sit inside as they locked them (lol), but interior looks "shiny" of course, with lots of shiny plastics that might look good when you sit in it once but might wear not so good. Not much leather or anything else thats really nice.
I noticed this when shopping for the GS. There used to be a pretty robust segment in the $38-45k range where you could get a car with a very nice interior, not LS or S-Class nice, but still high quality. Now, there isn't much in that segment anymore. Seems like you have a $35k Accord and a few others, and after that you're talking $50k+. The near luxury market seems to have disappeared.
Yup, makes me miss that 4th gen ES even more
?? Do you have a link?