GS350 vs the Lexus ES350 . . . .
#31
I find the ES vs GS arguments to be grounded in separate universes, particularly if the hybrid option is specified. While the provincialism of the conversation is not surprising, it led me to visit the Lexus.com site and build a GS somewhat comparable to my '13 ES300h. My moderately equipped ES bore a MSRP of $45K, $15K less than a base GS hybrid. As the GS lacks a diverse menu of individual options, the least expensive package which included NAV and a few other features boosted the MSRP to $70K! Personal finance is not what inhibited me from cross shopping these vehicles; the better value was to save roughly $25K and score better fuel efficiency. I did not even waste the opportunity of a GS test drive.
I can live very well with a bit more plastic content, a trifle more wind noise, and the banal Buick jokes!
I can live very well with a bit more plastic content, a trifle more wind noise, and the banal Buick jokes!
Last edited by Fly4u; 04-03-13 at 10:34 PM.
#32
I think from a pure quality and build quality standpoint the ES reached its peak between 2002-2006. I felt like the 2007 ES was a huge step down from the 2006 model, and felt that they made some of that up in 2010 with the additional wood and metal trim on the inside and chrome on the outside. I really liked my 2010 ES, much better looking than the 2003 I had before (which is still in the family), drove better, rode better, a little sportier, but interior quality was still a downgrade from the '03. In fact I chose the Parchment interior over black to help hide some of the poor quality plastics.
The 2013 has better space, and I think the design of the interior is an improvement, but from an execution standpoint material quality is a downgrade yet again from the 2012.
The 2013 has better space, and I think the design of the interior is an improvement, but from an execution standpoint material quality is a downgrade yet again from the 2012.
#33
Man, I really have to examine the 13 ES. I'm shocked it's as diminished as some are saying. I think my 09 ES is great inside. I do recall the generation prior and it was lovely inside but man, what a granny car from the outside. I really dig the exterior of the 13 but I'm baffled at the apparent sacrifice in interior quality which is atypical of Lexus.
#34
Lexus Test Driver
I have yet to sit in a new ES, or hear the media bash it's interior, but I will say this. The same masses of old men and women are gobbling up this car. They are all over the road here in Los Angeles and dealers are having no problem moving them out. It's about sales and money, and the ES fills the bill. I really don't think this older class of buyers care whether the dashboard is hard or soft. They get a solid, reliable, economical, smart luxury car that's cleanly styled, easy to manuver, and does not shout out to the world.
#35
Lexus Champion
While I think some of the talk about the hard/cheap plastics in the new ES has been a bit over the top, many of the professional reviews of the car have been lukewarm at best. Reviews of the the previous gen(s) weren't too exciting either but IMO that's the nature of the car. It sells well, is reliable, decent performance and fuel efficiency and meets the needs of its demographic. Not exciting stuff but a recipe for sales success in the entry level luxury segment.
#36
No, you shouldn't, nor would you. I have been in each and every one of those models, minus the GC, and can honestly say that my 2013 ES has a better laid out and much higher quality interior. I'm starting to think that you sat in a base model ES.
#37
I have yet to sit in a new ES, or hear the media bash it's interior, but I will say this. The same masses of old men and women are gobbling up this car. They are all over the road here in Los Angeles and dealers are having no problem moving them out. It's about sales and money, and the ES fills the bill. I really don't think this older class of buyers care whether the dashboard is hard or soft. They get a solid, reliable, economical, smart luxury car that's cleanly styled, easy to manuver, and does not shout out to the world.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
lexus knows its target market.
it's like 'professional' phone reviewers saying an iphone screen is too small - meanwhile apple sells zillions of them.
#40
I think the point is we are living in a golden age of automotive choice. So many mfgrs, platforms, engine/chassis options, interior selections, etc. It is absolute provincialism to chastise, categorize, or denigrate those who vote with their dollars - even though it is our nature and at times a sport! While brands may compete for market share and at times axe unprofitable offerings, we know where the ultimate power lies.
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Now....don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the new ES rides like a Mitsubishi Evo...it certainly doesn't. But it is noticeably firmer and noisier on the road than before.
It's about sales and money, and the ES fills the bill. I really don't think this older class of buyers care whether the dashboard is hard or soft.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-04-13 at 10:01 AM.
#42
Originally Posted by fly4u
I can live very well with a bit more plastic content, a trifle more wind noise, and the banal Buick jokes!
Huh... I always thought they were trying to make the ES the second quietest, behind big daddy LS. Either they failed or re-prioritized.
#43
For the record, the main critique I've heard across the boards is that more hard plastics were used in the lower touch areas. That's about it. There's also missing items such as no auto-leveling HIDs, no power side mirrors, cheaper exhaust tips (??), all of which will probably come back in a refresh. But that is pretty typical of new generation cycles, they will de-content, and add back in later years as an incentive for what will then be an aging model. (some examples include power side mirrors, easy close trunk, on the 3.5GS which are now missing in the current US 4GS)
When they do refresh the ES, maybe they'll employ softer touch materials in said areas OR maybe they'll retain that difference to differentiate the ES from the GS interior, just like Lexus continues to use two completely different variable suspension systems between the GS and the LS.
So yes there maybe more hard plastics, but in the face of the numerous improvements and added tech. in the current ES, it's vastly outweighed.
When they do refresh the ES, maybe they'll employ softer touch materials in said areas OR maybe they'll retain that difference to differentiate the ES from the GS interior, just like Lexus continues to use two completely different variable suspension systems between the GS and the LS.
So yes there maybe more hard plastics, but in the face of the numerous improvements and added tech. in the current ES, it's vastly outweighed.
Last edited by amphipri0n; 04-04-13 at 12:52 PM.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
I have yet to sit in a new ES, or hear the media bash it's interior, but I will say this. The same masses of old men and women are gobbling up this car. They are all over the road here in Los Angeles and dealers are having no problem moving them out. It's about sales and money, and the ES fills the bill. I really don't think this older class of buyers care whether the dashboard is hard or soft. They get a solid, reliable, economical, smart luxury car that's cleanly styled, easy to manuver, and does not shout out to the world.
Originally Posted by Mike728
My lease comment was not meant as an insult. Sorry if it came across that way. I was solely making the point that there's a different perception of value when you purchase, since you plan on keeping it much longer than 3 years. You said it was only $40/mo more for you ($1,440 total). That was not the case for me, which is why it was not even a tough decision to go with the ES over the GS. It was a $15k jump!
No, you shouldn't, nor would you. I have been in each and every one of those models, minus the GC, and can honestly say that my 2013 ES has a better laid out and much higher quality interior. I'm starting to think that you sat in a base model ES.
I didn't just "sit in an ES", I almost bought the car. I probably drove 8 of differing packages from the base car to the luxury model to the UL over the course of a couple months. None of the materials I have an issue with change depending on the trim level other than the leather. I personally would take the NuLuxe over the standard leather because it feels better. The semi-aniline leather is a different story obviously.
Originally Posted by trexlexus
know quietness is a subjective category, but the ES is actually LOUDER than the GS?
Originally Posted by amphipri0n
For the record, the main critique I've heard across the boards is that more hard plastics were used in the lower touch areas.
Then of course the removal of AFS, auto leveling HIDs, etc.
So yes there maybe more hard plastics, but in the face of the numerous improvements and added tech. in the current ES, it's vastly outweighed.
To me the 2013 ES is the first example of Lexus relying on the fact that "its a Lexus" to sell the product.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-04-13 at 01:03 PM.
#45
I assumed you checked out the steering wheel. It's a huge improvement over the previous gen and is the now same one found in the GS/LS (like the corporate grill, the new corporate steering wheel). What about the headliner material which is considerably nicer/softer and actually runs all the way down to the top of the beltline of the A/B pillars. Additionally, the quality of the wood trim is a step up and much more convincing than the one it replaces. Another interior improvement-- having uniform lighting color across the board, whereas before there was a mix of some LCDs in old-school green, while others in white, the list goes on...
The previous generation ES you had bore a remarkable amount of space in the dashboard that was a vast landscape of nothing but vinyl/rubber. I would think the plastic or rubber should definitely have been softer there because it took up so much unbroken space in the cockpit. In the '13 ES, you have a much prettier design and way more complex construction in the dashboard interior. The glovebox may not be as soft to touch, but it's not offensively hard either, considering I'm not feeling it up during a typical drive.
As I noted in my previous post these will most likely reappear in a refresh, as is typical for all automakers when releasing new models-- de-content until a refresh, where the "new" perks will serve as incentives.
Last edited by amphipri0n; 04-04-13 at 02:33 PM.