Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Diesel benefits shrink as gas engines get more fuel-efficient, torquier

Could all of the work some automakers are doing to increase diesel engine adoption in the US be going up in a cloud of smoke? Maybe so, as torquier and more fuel-efficient gasoline engines and cheapening hybrid technology are cutting into what had been perceived as the advantages of diesel drivetrains, the Detroit News says.

While companies like General Motors and Chrysler have announced plans to add diesel models, Ford, Toyota and Hyundai are eschewing the technology for passenger cars. Hyundai CEO John Krafcik estimated that a diesel-powered car costs, on average, $5,000 more than a similar gas-powered car, while the price premium for hybrid-powered vehicles is about $1,500.

Additionally, gas engines are being developed to deliver more torque at the low end, which provides one of diesels benefits without the drawback of (currently) about 36 cents more per gallon compared to regular unleaded. While US diesel-vehicle sales did jump 25 percent last year, they sill only account for about 2.7 percent of new US cars, or slightly less than hybrids' market share, the newspaper says, citing Edmunds. Diesels account for about half of the new vehicles sold in Europe.

In February, General Motors unveiled the 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel, which will be GM's first diesel passenger car in the US since the 1986 Chevrolet Chevette. The Cruze Diesel, which is turbocharged, will deliver 148 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque as well as 42 miles per gallon highway fuel economy.

Late last year, Germany's largest automakers, including Volkswagen, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, joined up for their "Clean Diesel. Clearly Better." campaign, which promoted diesels as a relatively inexpensive way to boost fuel economy and combat rising refueling prices. Last year, VW's clean-diesel sales jumped 32 percent from 2011 to almost 83,000 units, while diesel sales for Audi in the US were down 1.6 percent to 7,179 vehicles.

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/02...icient-torque/

Fly4u

I had a diesel vehicle under the most optimal of conditions: 2003 VW Jetta Diesel..... the engine option IIRC was roughly $1200 and included a few perks such as heated seats. During most or all of my time of ownership diesel was a bit cheaper than gasoline, further magnifying the advantage. Too bad the build-quality of that iteration was horrendous, and I dumped it after 2.5 years. Today, the engine option tends to be significantly more $$ while the price of diesel, at least in SoCal is more costly. Advantage is dramatically reduced.

Anybody know why diesel-electric hybrids aren't available, particularly from VW? Is the cost/weight prohibitive or did I just answer my own question??

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Volvo makes a pretty mean/green V60 in diesel electric. Shame we don't get it here though

Sens4Miles

VW were supposedly working on a diesel hybrid years ago, but then it was never mentioned again. Seems like it would be the best of both worlds, but perhaps it was more difficult to pull off (or more expensive) than they had anticipated.

SteVTEC

These numbers are backwards. It's on average a $1500 premium for a diesel powered car, but $5000 for hybrids. If it was really a $5k, no small diesel would be viable because it would price the cars right out of their segments. The key thing is to make sure you're comparing vehicles with similar levels of equipment. This is why it's so much easier for a diesel to "pay off" than a hybrid.

Not seen in the EPA ratings, but it's also very easy to exceed the mileage ratings with diesels. I have a few friends with diesels too, and they get 45-50 mpg highway (VWs with manuals)

geko29

Gassers are getting better, but they've still got a long way to go. I get 40+ mpg on the highway (~30 overall thanks to nearly all city driving, and a sharp drop during the cold winter that is hopefully nearly over), with close to 500lbft of torque. The most efficient gas powerplants with similar torque levels barely hit half that number--2013 Corvette 427 makes 470 lbft and gets 24mpg highway, despite weighing 600lbs less and having an ultra-conservative 0.50:1 sixth gear.

Going the other direction, a professional driver was able to squeeze 46.9mpg out of a 1.6L Ecoboost by going around a closed test track at 30-40mph and coasting to a stop over the last half-mile. So similar economy, under totally unrealistic conditions, for an engine with 60% less torque (184lbft) installed in a car that weighs 400lbs less.

Combine that with fuel that, in the Chicago area at least, tends to be cheaper than Premium more often than it is more expensive, and I've got a big win.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

its too bad when the EPA mandated ultra low sulfur diesel they doubled the price of diesel. Not to mention destroy fuel pumps of older diesels since those cars needed the sulfur to lubricate their fuel pumps.

Blackraven

V60 D6 AWD Diesel Electric Plug-in Hybrid

Big Andy

Because then you'd be paying the diesel premium and the hybrid premium.

It's a lot easier to make a clean petrol engine and then marry that to hybrid tech than to build a diesel engine with all the high pressure common rail injection, particulate filters, urea injection etc and then add the battery technology.

Blackraven

True that

But in the case of the UK (and the rest of Europe), diesels currently make up the majority of the passenger vehicle population over there.

I guess that's mostly due to diesel being cheaper than petrol (unleaded) over there plus the environmental and engine taxation policies seem to favor diesels??? (i.e. Vehicle Excise Duty in the UK, etc.)

bagwell

from an MB owner's magazine.

TangoRed

That article is out of date. The latest diesel MB SUVs do indeed have a spare, because their chassis was designed to accommodate adBlue this time around. In the previous gen they had to add the tank because its requirement came well after the car debuted.

Furthermore, if they really want to go as far as talk about the diesel fuel filter they should include spark plug replacement in the gas versions- not a cost on the diesel models.

TangoRed

Not only would it be pricey, but apparently some manufacturers are having a hard time getting the diesel to start-stop smoothly. BMW doesn't include start-stop tech on its diesels because it says the HPFP can't handle it.

bagwell

its from Dec 2012 and the costs are only over 30,000 miles and didn't include the premium price paid for the diesel version of the ML.

FrankReynoldsCPA

Maintenance on a diesel can be horrendously expensive. The new emissions requirements have been killing them as well. With new vehicles, gasoline is making more and more sense.