GS F; FT-HT and XSE among Trademark Filings For Toyota Motor Corporation
03-27-13, 11:07 AM
#46
Just to throw it out there.
The JDM Toyota Crown Athlete which is derived from the 4th Gen GS and shares the 2.5L and 3.5L DI engines with the GS250/GS350 as well as the same hybrid engine as the GS450h has TWO additional engine options not found in the GS.
3.5 L 2GR-FSE V6 Supercharged (Athlete) (4WD) 380HP
4.6 L 1UR-FSE V8< BiTurbo (4WD)(TRD) 565HP
Both cars have for all intents and purposes the same engine bay and drivetrain. There is no technical reason the supercharged 3.5L V6 and Biturbo V8 can't be made to fit the GS body.
The JDM Toyota Crown Athlete which is derived from the 4th Gen GS and shares the 2.5L and 3.5L DI engines with the GS250/GS350 as well as the same hybrid engine as the GS450h has TWO additional engine options not found in the GS.
3.5 L 2GR-FSE V6 Supercharged (Athlete) (4WD) 380HP
4.6 L 1UR-FSE V8< BiTurbo (4WD)(TRD) 565HP
Both cars have for all intents and purposes the same engine bay and drivetrain. There is no technical reason the supercharged 3.5L V6 and Biturbo V8 can't be made to fit the GS body.
03-27-13, 11:09 AM
#47
to be honest, and it's my opinion, if they don't make a gsf with over 500hp, might as well not do it. it's a known fact that this is a very tight / small / competitive market and clearly lexus is trying to take a scoop away. and with a car that's almost 100hp short? i am just saying it's very tough and i will be disappointed.
i cannot agree on we should just be "thankful something is coming". if they are to do it, do it right, otherwise they shoot themselves in the foot before the game starts.
i cannot agree on we should just be "thankful something is coming". if they are to do it, do it right, otherwise they shoot themselves in the foot before the game starts.
Yes, that alone will even get more people in the door rather than having to try to convince them that "it's enough".
Honestly, I probably won't even raise an eyebrow if it's less.
The problem is, we all know lexus can do it. The only question is "WHY DON'T THEY????"
(I'm not going to expect an answer I'll like
)It's a vicious cycle. If lexus doesn't do it right, it will fail. It failed b/c it wasn't enough.
my opinion
Other than that, crossing fingers and toes
03-27-13, 11:21 AM
#49
first my apology on the lfa sales, as a business case yes the lfa as halo car is nothing but awesome, it proves more than a few points. but i think we will disagree that the gsf will be a different case, where i don't think the car can be used to prove points the way lfa does
regarding the lineup, i think lexus is behind now, but if we roll back to 2007 time frame, actually the 3.5l v6 and 4.6l v8 were both extremely competitive (even surpassed competitions in various cases). that's also the time frame isf came out, so lexus most definitely care(d) about hp.
i put it in past tense because i am not sure about now. whether they are playing the engine update game again, or if they are trying to get out of it. if they are, i can only say they are making a pretty weak case, because only the 3.5l v6 is still somewhat competitive.
i put it in past tense because i am not sure about now. whether they are playing the engine update game again, or if they are trying to get out of it. if they are, i can only say they are making a pretty weak case, because only the 3.5l v6 is still somewhat competitive.
the 4gs is a huge step up from 3gs (how can i not know, i had the 3gs), but i think if we throw enthusiast into the equation, almost everyone agrees that the car can use more power. and with further aggressive tuning, i really don't see how 460hp is a limiting factor
so that does put us on the same page where engine configuration is the limitation. given their time frame and choices, they can't make much of it except the 5.0l v8 (and i don't think they want to touch any blowers yet). i absolutely agree on that limitation. but at the same time i am not sure if i buy into that as good enough product planning. the gsf can't be an idea overnight (if so, poor job on lexus), they should be able to find the "right" setup
i will say the 460 figured had hit me since a while ago and that's why i have kept such a strong opinion about it. as much as i agree lexus is overdue for a gsf, i think this is going to be a hard care. i know plenty of friends who are in this segment (and they own/owned lexus), but for less than 500hp, the gsf simply quickly fall out of their radar.
we can only pray, and i know very well i am losing the battle on wishing for 500+hp. but we will see when the car is here, and most importantly outside of clublexus. i know a lot of m3 and c63 owners they actually respect the isf, i definitely want to see how m5 and e63 owners think (personally i don't really care much about magazines anymore even since bmw's glory days)
so that does put us on the same page where engine configuration is the limitation. given their time frame and choices, they can't make much of it except the 5.0l v8 (and i don't think they want to touch any blowers yet). i absolutely agree on that limitation. but at the same time i am not sure if i buy into that as good enough product planning. the gsf can't be an idea overnight (if so, poor job on lexus), they should be able to find the "right" setup
i will say the 460 figured had hit me since a while ago and that's why i have kept such a strong opinion about it. as much as i agree lexus is overdue for a gsf, i think this is going to be a hard care. i know plenty of friends who are in this segment (and they own/owned lexus), but for less than 500hp, the gsf simply quickly fall out of their radar.
we can only pray, and i know very well i am losing the battle on wishing for 500+hp. but we will see when the car is here, and most importantly outside of clublexus. i know a lot of m3 and c63 owners they actually respect the isf, i definitely want to see how m5 and e63 owners think (personally i don't really care much about magazines anymore even since bmw's glory days)
Sounds like both of us are on the same page now. We both care about the importance of the GS-F to the brand just for different reasons
03-27-13, 11:26 AM
#50
Fun little tidbit for the day. The SC was never really meant to have 4 seats. Lexus added them at the end of development because to ship a 2 seat sport car over to the USA was $2000 more than a 4 seat one.
03-27-13, 12:20 PM
#52
No worries
Def far behind. Seems we agree that only the DI 3.5 is still competitive. Can't remember how many times I've posted the figures vs other engines just to prove what a gem it really is.
Well I hope they find the right set-up, as the F marque deserves more credit and acknowledgment. Of course the IS-F can't do it alone.
Sounds like both of us are on the same page now. We both care about the importance of the GS-F to the brand just for different reasons
Def far behind. Seems we agree that only the DI 3.5 is still competitive. Can't remember how many times I've posted the figures vs other engines just to prove what a gem it really is.
Well I hope they find the right set-up, as the F marque deserves more credit and acknowledgment. Of course the IS-F can't do it alone.
Sounds like both of us are on the same page now. We both care about the importance of the GS-F to the brand just for different reasons
I don't have any hard facts to prove why we don't get a supercharged 2GS-FSE or a Bi-Turbo 4.6L V8 other than my own assumptions which think fuel economy and tariffs may (or may not) play a roll in our markets product line-up.
Fun little tidbit for the day. The SC was never really meant to have 4 seats. Lexus added them at the end of development because to ship a 2 seat sport car over to the USA was $2000 more than a 4 seat one.
Fun little tidbit for the day. The SC was never really meant to have 4 seats. Lexus added them at the end of development because to ship a 2 seat sport car over to the USA was $2000 more than a 4 seat one.
first time i heard about the rear seats on sc (i assume sc430). i heard before those two completely useless seats were there for insurance purposes, but with this 2k extra on export / import, it definitely played a factor
03-27-13, 12:36 PM
#53
yeah, i sooo want the f line to succeed, and seeing the isf and lfa, i think lexus has every right to. because of that and given how crazy the market is, that's why i really worry about some of the decisions made and how it might affect things. as we all know, one wrong move can take 4-5 right moves to correct
hehehe, maybe they can have those TRD parts over as dealer installed option
first time i heard about the rear seats on sc (i assume sc430). i heard before those two completely useless seats were there for insurance purposes, but with this 2k extra on export / import, it definitely played a factor
hehehe, maybe they can have those TRD parts over as dealer installed option
first time i heard about the rear seats on sc (i assume sc430). i heard before those two completely useless seats were there for insurance purposes, but with this 2k extra on export / import, it definitely played a factor
03-27-13, 01:34 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
I would be fine with 460hp or so. Hell I'd be fine with 350hp or so, the GS chassis is so good that is could use more power to make it even more fun.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
03-27-13, 01:58 PM
#55
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Count me in with the high HP crowd. Yes the GS is a good handler and is light but come on 577 hp and 0-60 3.5 sec is all customers really want to hear. I doubt many hard core enthusiast will venture toward a Lexus dealership to buy a more track oriented GS-F. Lexus is going to have to do a proper force fed engine for the next LS anyway.
03-28-13, 05:31 AM
#56
Lexus Champion
@natnut
How do they exactly make an LS460 engine bolted with turbochargers to generate that much power output?
Seriously, what kind of turbos are they using anyway? Are these still TWIN VORTEX TURBOCHARGERS?
But yeah case in point, this shows that the Toyota group has the knowledge, skills and capability to implement 500+ HP on a UR series engine with two turbochargers (and the surprising thing is: they're using a 1UR engine; what more with a 2UR engine like in the IS-F).
So they *KNOW* how to do it
The big question now is if they have the ***** to do it.
Agreed
Lexus needs to tell the target market (i.e. buyers of M5, RS6 Avant, E63 AMG and Jaguar XFR, etc.) that "Hey, those are cars are indeed great.........but would you also consider what we are offering as well? Would you care to listen to us?"
Go all out =)
How do they exactly make an LS460 engine bolted with turbochargers to generate that much power output?
Seriously, what kind of turbos are they using anyway? Are these still TWIN VORTEX TURBOCHARGERS?
But yeah case in point, this shows that the Toyota group has the knowledge, skills and capability to implement 500+ HP on a UR series engine with two turbochargers (and the surprising thing is: they're using a 1UR engine; what more with a 2UR engine like in the IS-F).
So they *KNOW* how to do it
The big question now is if they have the ***** to do it.
Originally Posted by Lexuslvr91
Count me in with the high HP crowd. Yes the GS is a good handler and is light but come on 577 hp and 0-60 3.5 sec is all customers really want to hear. I doubt many hard core enthusiast will venture toward a Lexus dealership to buy a more track oriented GS-F. Lexus is going to have to do a proper force fed engine for the next LS anyway.
Lexus needs to tell the target market (i.e. buyers of M5, RS6 Avant, E63 AMG and Jaguar XFR, etc.) that "Hey, those are cars are indeed great.........but would you also consider what we are offering as well? Would you care to listen to us?"
Go all out =)
03-28-13, 06:34 AM
#57
I would be fine with 460hp or so. Hell I'd be fine with 350hp or so, the GS chassis is so good that is could use more power to make it even more fun.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
So whatever they make it will be good, more power especially good.
03-28-13, 06:39 AM
#58
this is new powertrain center in Toyota Technical Center
In order to accelerate the "making better cars", we began operations in February this year as a base for the development of next-generation power train units that form the core of the car.
Note that at the time of operation is usually about 2,800 employees will be working.
Note that at the time of operation is usually about 2,800 employees will be working.
03-28-13, 06:49 AM
#59
Much of this conversation has been hashed and rehashed in earlier GS F threads but my sentiments are that I would like to see Lexus build a ~550+hp GS F first and foremost. If they do not, I still won't be disappointed because I think the car can be very competitive, even with a horsepower disadvantage. The M5 is in a weak spot right now, the E63 is great but very expensive and the S6 has 420 hp. If I had to pick a sedan currently sold in that category, it would be the XF-R, but that seems to be much lower volume than the others.
03-28-13, 07:47 AM
#60
Lexus Connoisseur
I would be fine with 460hp or so. Hell I'd be fine with 350hp or so, the GS chassis is so good that is could use more power to make it even more fun.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.