View Poll Results: Should Lexus cancel the ES?
Yes
18
20.45%
No
70
79.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus to Cancel ES?
03-04-12, 06:37 PM
#16
Pole Position
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Lexus get's rid of the ES can VW get rid of almost half of Audi's from the A4-A8? An Audi R8 is a Lamborghini!
All companies do this from BMW to American cars. Saves money and is more profitable.
All companies do this from BMW to American cars. Saves money and is more profitable.
03-04-12, 06:43 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: WA
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I know its a BIG seller and its a nice car, BUT the engineering from the beginning was based on Toyota philosophy not Lexus. I don't mind the 2 brands sharing parts, technology, etc. but their Philosophy and Purpose need to be DIFFERENT.
The GS is a better car by far BUT it suffers because the ES has similar qualities at a cheaper price. What is the point? Lexus is only hurting themselves here.
All the ES sales will not disappear - those customers will buy the GS. Just like 5-7k sales go to E Class and 5 Series each month.
The GS is a better car by far BUT it suffers because the ES has similar qualities at a cheaper price. What is the point? Lexus is only hurting themselves here.
All the ES sales will not disappear - those customers will buy the GS. Just like 5-7k sales go to E Class and 5 Series each month.
GS is a smaller car inside, and is stiffer. ES is a smaller LS while GS is a bigger IS. I don't see having both would hurt Lexus than having only one.
03-04-12, 07:29 PM
#21
IMO the Lexus ES is not a true Lexus and should be cancelled. I want Lexus to get away from all their products tied to Toyotas that are just rebadged with better interiors.
1) Brand Image would be much better if Lexus didn't have a car that uses the same Engine and Chassis as a Camry!
2) Not enough differentiation between the GS and ES. The Lexus GS will never sell well bec its main competition is the ES right next to it in the showroom. The average Joe doesn't care about RWD/FWD but about price. ES is same size, has same features for LESS $$$$$. I guarantee GS sales will suffer once the new ES is released later this year. It's silly to sell 2 cars of the same size for similar price!
3) If they cancel it, 90% of ES buyers will remain with Lexus and just buy the GS.
Bring over the GS250 with a starting price of high 30s to low 40s.
4) Lexus can use the resources (R&D and marketing dollars) spent on the ES, to develop other segments which they are lacking in - such as COUPES, F Models or more HYBRIDS. OR they can just put all that $$$$$ into 1 model - the GS, and make it GREAT!
5) Yes the ES is a nice car but its still based on plain 20k Camry. With the new and improved Avalon coming soon, Lexus/Toyota has too many models targeting the same buyer. The GS can't build a solid following because of this.
1) Brand Image would be much better if Lexus didn't have a car that uses the same Engine and Chassis as a Camry!
2) Not enough differentiation between the GS and ES. The Lexus GS will never sell well bec its main competition is the ES right next to it in the showroom. The average Joe doesn't care about RWD/FWD but about price. ES is same size, has same features for LESS $$$$$. I guarantee GS sales will suffer once the new ES is released later this year. It's silly to sell 2 cars of the same size for similar price!
3) If they cancel it, 90% of ES buyers will remain with Lexus and just buy the GS.
Bring over the GS250 with a starting price of high 30s to low 40s.4) Lexus can use the resources (R&D and marketing dollars) spent on the ES, to develop other segments which they are lacking in - such as COUPES, F Models or more HYBRIDS. OR they can just put all that $$$$$ into 1 model - the GS, and make it GREAT!
5) Yes the ES is a nice car but its still based on plain 20k Camry. With the new and improved Avalon coming soon, Lexus/Toyota has too many models targeting the same buyer. The GS can't build a solid following because of this.
Personally i don't have anything against ES, but it's not a car for me. I had a 11' loaner, it's nice and quiet, but drives like a boat:P
03-04-12, 07:32 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I'm not stupid, Lexus will probably never cancel the ES, but as a fan of Lexus, I wish they would and focus on their other car models more - GS, IS, LS. They have done a great job with the 2IS and I hope the 3IS builds on it with more models (coupe, wagon). I love the new emphasis on F SPORT.
I guess most of you are focusing on my comment of ES being based on Camry. I'm surprised there are so many ES fans here.
IMO it's the LAST Lexus model I would consider.
My main point is: What is the POINT of selling of TWO models that target the SAME buyer, featuring the SAME options, SAME size, for similar price?
I know enthusiasts would never cross-shop the GS/ES but the general public does. Most people would probably NOT KNOW a difference between them.
I guess most of you are focusing on my comment of ES being based on Camry. I'm surprised there are so many ES fans here.
IMO it's the LAST Lexus model I would consider.My main point is: What is the POINT of selling of TWO models that target the SAME buyer, featuring the SAME options, SAME size, for similar price?
I know enthusiasts would never cross-shop the GS/ES but the general public does. Most people would probably NOT KNOW a difference between them.
03-04-12, 07:41 PM
#25
If the ES had not been available in 2008 when I bought my wife's car, I would have bought something other than a Lexus. The GS was much too small (interior and trunk) to serve as a sedan so I would likely have bought an Infiniti M35. If Lexus were to drop any of their current models, the slow selling GS should be the one dropped.
Steve
Steve
03-04-12, 08:47 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
/threadfail
ES was launched originally with LS. it is hugely successful. it is basically an LS at 60% the price.
chance of ES going away in next decade: 0
ES was launched originally with LS. it is hugely successful. it is basically an LS at 60% the price.
chance of ES going away in next decade: 0
03-04-12, 09:11 PM
#27
Moderator
I say leave the ES alone and expand Lexus as a whole. Actually Lexus could expand the ES line:
ES 300h
ES 250 (China)
ES 350
ES 350C (Convertible based on the Solara)
ES 350C (Fixed hard top coupe based on the Solara)
ES 350 Sportcross (Based on the Camry wagon)
How about that?
Last edited by Trexus; 03-05-12 at 01:31 PM.
03-04-12, 09:26 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
whoever said the ES isn't a real Lexus can go **** off. Its their best selling car and its one of the original 2 Lexus models.
go do any amount of research and you'll find an ES has many differences from the camry. its smoother, quieter, more refined and the fit and finish is excellent. they're reliable, efficient, decently powerful, safe and luxurious. If that doesn't scream LEXUS i don't know what does.
if anything they should expand the ES line to include a 4cyl hybrid model in addition to the V6 model, and introduce a smaller V6 option as well to drop the price point to low 30's to entice more buyers
go do any amount of research and you'll find an ES has many differences from the camry. its smoother, quieter, more refined and the fit and finish is excellent. they're reliable, efficient, decently powerful, safe and luxurious. If that doesn't scream LEXUS i don't know what does.
if anything they should expand the ES line to include a 4cyl hybrid model in addition to the V6 model, and introduce a smaller V6 option as well to drop the price point to low 30's to entice more buyers
Last edited by 03 ES; 03-04-12 at 09:29 PM.
03-04-12, 09:58 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not stupid, Lexus will probably never cancel the ES, but as a fan of Lexus, I wish they would and focus on their other car models more - GS, IS, LS. They have done a great job with the 2IS and I hope the 3IS builds on it with more models (coupe, wagon). I love the new emphasis on F SPORT.
I guess most of you are focusing on my comment of ES being based on Camry. I'm surprised there are so many ES fans here. IMO it's the LAST Lexus model I would consider.
My main point is: What is the POINT of selling of TWO models that target the SAME buyer, featuring the SAME options, SAME size, for similar price?
I know enthusiasts would never cross-shop the GS/ES but the general public does. Most people would probably NOT KNOW a difference between them.
I guess most of you are focusing on my comment of ES being based on Camry. I'm surprised there are so many ES fans here.
IMO it's the LAST Lexus model I would consider.My main point is: What is the POINT of selling of TWO models that target the SAME buyer, featuring the SAME options, SAME size, for similar price?
I know enthusiasts would never cross-shop the GS/ES but the general public does. Most people would probably NOT KNOW a difference between them.
Before there was a GS, IS, LX etc, there was just the LS and ES. Both represent what Lexus was all about when it was born in 1988. Today, the ES is one of the best selling Lexus models of all time. To cancel it would be rediculous.
Now, evolved the ES? Yes, I would agree, the current ES leaves a lot to be desired (that is just my opinion). But to cancel it, you are plan out of touch with reality.
Perhaps evolve the ES into a bigger car? A V8? Maybe install a hybrid system? Now that would make sense.
Finally, the ES and GS are not cross shopped. Never have.
You need to come back to reality.