GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I'm not head over heels on the styling, but I like the progress they've been making with their chassis. Most of the older Lexus can put you to sleep within minutes, but the current line-up has both plushy (IS250, LS460, GS350), and sportier cars (ISF and F-sports). There should be no reason to whine about how Lexus offers nothing sporty. This isn't 2006 anymore .

mmarshall

Totally agree. Past LS and ES models, IMO, were much better than the ones we have today. Lexus has particularly screwed up the new ES with firmer tires/underpinnings and cost-cutting measures.

The idea that refinement and a soft ride is for "old" people is an incorrect stereotype that has often been pushed by the auto press (and some auto enthusiasts) for years. People of all ages can, and do, appreciate comfort, isolation, and refinement in a car. I myself did.....even going back decades to when I was a teen-ager myself.

Not just Lexus, but most other manufacturers as well tend to worship more and more at the altar of sport. Cars that I would call truly smooth-riding, today, are almost extinct. They have all either been dropped or redesigned with firmer underpinnings/tires. Among mass-produced cars, the non-AMG Mercedes S-class is virtually the only truly smooth-rider left.

This is a real problem for me when people call me up or E-Mail and ask me........ "Mike, can you recommend an reasonably affordable new car with a really nice, smooth ride? Seems like everything I try out is just so stiff nowadays". And, unfortunately, more often than not, I either have to sit there stone-faced or simply recommend that they buy a used model...back when vehicles rode more smoothly.

LexFather

The fact is Lexus is tons sportier and only REAL enthusiasts know, not hobbits that post on the Internet most who never post any car they own let alone attend an event.

Lexus has FAILED getting this message across and that is their fault. Not sure why they had events for less sporty cars for people to try themselves and not the offerings today.

They are about to waste the LFA.. A car that is simply one of the all time greats by having one other Model in the IS F while the Germans churn out high performances models every week.

LexusNN

iTrader: (5)

I like the direction. Lexus is grabbing attention from all over now and they don't have the "old people" designation anymore. They are attracting new buyers, and attention (good or bad opinions). Like said before, the f sport is just a package, its not like you have to get it. I like every model that is out and they are continuing their pursuit to be the best cars in the world. Awards are piling in and the defining characteristics of Lexus are still strong in my opinion.

mordecai

Going sporty does not mean not being "refined". In my opinion Lexus is going for a balance of both. In fact the recent GS and LS F-sport is a testament to this.

LexFather

^^^ exactly.....

trexlexus

Very true, as Car and Driver have said in the past that BMW's 3 series has an almost perfect balance in its segment.

However, my main concern is this: when you add sport, you inherently take away refinement. Unfortunately that is the way physics work, right? No way in heck will anyone see the raw Bugatti Veyron as refined. I am just a little disappointed that the LS is gearing towards the sporty area now. As I said earlier, the IS and GS were meant for it, so I am not too worked up over them.

gengar

Today's LS is worse in ride quality and comfort? I disagree completely. Go drive the LS460L with air suspension if you don't believe it. It manages to give incredible road isolation while still avoiding the floaty feel generally associated with such a cushioned ride.

Even the non-air suspension LS is excellent. I've gotten to put some miles on an LS460 and the only way I think the LS460 is in any way worse than my LS430 in terms of comfort/isolation is that the brake pedal is way grabbier at the first touch. That's it. It bests my 430 in every other aspect.


I don't understand why you keep insisting that the addition of an LS 460 F-Sport somehow demonstrates that the LS is going sporty. Like the IS F, it is but one single low-production niche version of a model.

Ignoring what the rest of the LS models bring to the table is a huge disservice to the lineup, especially considering how few F-Sport versions actually get made/sold.

Aron9000

Moderator edit - and that should be where you stopped. Don't repost tired and baiting images please.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

I like the new direction, but I have hard time understanding their strategy?

Its obvious that Lexus is going for younger more sport-oriented buyers this time. However, at the same time they drop the V8 and continue to equip cars with 7 years old engines. Now, I'm not saying the engine in the GS / IS is bad, but +3hp increase ?

I was super excited when I first heard about the F devision, but lately it seems that it has not been producing much, compared to the past 4 years. I would love to see more true F sport cars, more F parts. The GS was out for more than a year now, and we still waiting for parts. I just hope that they are super busy working on at least 3 new F cars and not just sitting around and drinking sake all day!

Outrage

Lexus's new direction is about bringing new customers in to the fold, like me. Lexus traditionalists are still served by the non-enthusiast oriented models.

trexlexus

Gengar, I'm not ignoring the fact that the F sport is but 1 piece of the LS puzzle. I fully understand it will most likely be a small piece in this segment of cars.

That is not the point I am trying to bring up. I am talking about the fact that the LS is no longer FOCUSED, in my opinion, on providing sole comfort/luxury. The 2013s may be the most comfortable models yet (I will admit I do not know, as I have never driven ANY LS. No shame in admitting ignorance). But it seems to me that when someone splits development time into both sport (F sport package) and providing refinement (the rest of the lineup), neither can fully achieve greatness.

Let's say I want to become a master at painting or cooking. If I spend time working on both skills I might be great at them both, but can I really be the tops in either? Time spent on 1 is time wasted on the other. See where I am going?

Now again, I have never proclaimed to know everything. Personally, I have never owned the new Lexus models, but I like the brand itself. That is why I am here, and why a lot of others are here as well. The reason I made this thread was to see how many people agree with my way of thinking regarding the move towards sport, and to learn more. This is a forum isn't it?

mmarshall

Don't have the old-person's designation "anymore"? They never did. That was just another inaccurate auto-press stereotype. Comfort and refinement in an car knows no boundaries between old and young.

mmarshall

No one is arguing that...or, at least, I'm not. But, on the other hand, many just-as-real Lexus enthusiasts bought the brand for years for their refinement, and didn't really want just pure sport.

When I bought my Lexus IS300, for example, I got what I thought was a version with an excellent ride/handling balance of both sport and refinement. It had 16" wheels and 55-series all-season tires....which were a no-cost option from the standard 17" wheels and 45-series summer-only HP tires. Lexus, foolishly IMO, dropped that 16", 55-series option from the 2Gen model, despite adding AWD on the 250 model.

LexBob2

The average age of both ES and LS new car owners has been at or above 60 for quite sme time. I'm sure that Lexus wants to lower it. The IS and new GS both indicate they are heading in that direction.

I don't think the automotive press has too much influence on the typical ES/LS buyers, so it will take the new updated models to bring the younger buyers into the brand.