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Big Brother wants to Track & Tax us for miles driven! (New Tax)

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Old 03-02-13, 10:40 PM
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Default Big Brother wants to Track & Tax us for miles driven! (New Tax)

Read this Article -- The New Way to Tax: Pay Per Mile Driven -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/100359287

The New Way to Tax: Pay Per Mile Driven

Published: Monday, 7 Jan 2013 | 11:29 AM ET
By: Philip LeBeau

CNBC Auto and Airline Industry Reporter

Have you ever heard of the vehicle miles traveled tax? No? Well get ready to hear more about it, because the vehicle miles traveled tax, or VMT, is the latest way states are looking to make up for falling gas tax revenues.

"The VMT is likely the way states will raise money in the future for their roads and infrastructure," said Joshua Schank, president and CEO of the ENO Center for Transportation in Washington, D.C. "The states aren't yet to the point where they've figured out exactly how to implement the VMT, but they'll get there."

Even though the VMT is more of an idea than a reality at this point, the fact is states are looking at implementing it as a way to make up for falling gas tax revenues. Those revenues are the primary way states pay for maintaining their roads, highways, bridges and in recent years those budgets have been under pressure.

(Read More: US Auto Sales Expected to Drive Past 15 Million in 2013.)

Why? Blame it on the double whammy of a recession prompting people to drive less, which means they are filling up less often. On top of that, Americans are increasingly driving more fuel efficient vehicles, including hybrids, which means people make fewer trips to the gas station. According to the University of Michigan, the average fuel economy for a new vehicle sold in 2012 was 23.8 MPG, an all-time high.

Taxing Electric Cars

Starting in February the state of Washington will tax electric vehicle owners $100 per year. It's estimated there are a little more than 1,500 electric cars in Washington.

The money raised will go to the state's road maintenance fund. In essence, Washington wants electric car owners to pay $100 for the privilege of driving around the state.

(Read More: Hybrids Are Best Value for Auto Buyers: Report.)

Meanwhile, lawmakers in Oregon are kicking around the idea of taxing high mileage vehicles starting in 2015. The Oregon tax could be a flat annual fee and/or a tax per mile driven.

Either way, what's happening in the Pacific Northwest is raising a number of questions. The primary one being: Is it only a matter of time until anybody owning a car or truck is paying a special tax based on how much they drive their car?
Stan Honda | AFP | Getty Images

Supporters of VMT or per mile taxes point out that electric car and even hybrid car owners are paying nothing or very little to help maintain state roads.

Take a look at the Washington electric vehicle tax and compare it to the state's current gas tax of 37 cents per gallon. If somebody drives an internal combustion car that gets 30 MPG and they average 12,500 miles driven each year, they'll pay about $154 a year in state gas tax. By comparison, electric car owners will be paying less at just $100 per year.

On the flip side, critics of VMT or per mile taxes say it's hypocritical of state governments to promote electrical vehicle ownership and then turn around and tax those who are the "early adopters".

Tolls, License Fees and the Federal Gas Tax

For years states and some municipalities have been taxing those who drive on certain roads or who cross select bridges with tolls. Many of these tolls were implemented to pay for building or expanding a new highway, with the promise of removing the toll once the road or highway was built. In reality, most toll roads have remained toll roads. Why? States need the funds.

"We are not spending enough to keep up with the maintenance and repairs of roads and bridges," Schank said. "People don't understand paving roads, adding roads, etc. costs money. That money has to come from somewhere."

(Read More: Automakers Rev Up End-of-Year Sales.)

The federal government collects 18.4 cents for every gallon of gas pumped in this country. The federal gas tax has gradually increased from 1 cent a gallon back in 1932 to its current rate of 18.4 cents.

While you may not want to pay any more in federal gas tax, the idea has been advocated in recent years by a growing number of policy makers. In fact, in 2010, the Simpson Bowles deficit-reduction commission called for raising the federal gas tax as a way to help cut the deficit.

Now, Erskine Bowles isn't so sure that idea would fly in Washington.

"I think it (raising the federal gas tax) is generally not well received," Bowles said. "There are lots of reasons not to do it and there are lots of other ways to generate revenues, but what we have to do is make sure that we generate enough revenues to pay for the transportation spending that we are currently undertaking," says

Big Brother Tracking Where You Drive?

As more states look to VMT or per-mile driven taxes, they will wrestle with the tricky issue of calculating how many miles people drive. They could avoid the problem by imposing a flat annual tax on all vehicles when they are registered each year. Critics say that would be unfair to those who drive only 5,000 or 8,000 miles a year while others who are racking up 15,000 or 17,000 miles are paying the same tax.

(Read More: Cheaper Midsize Cars Rated Safer Than Luxury Models.)

There is also the idea of monitoring how many miles are driven using transponders on all cars and trucks. This idea pits benefit of having a more accurate read on the mileage of each vehicle against concerns the state will be able to monitor where you have driven your car. Who would have access to that information? Is that too much of 'big brother' tracking our lives?

There are still more questions than answers when it comes to the VMT, but make no mistake: The idea is gaining steam and coming to a state near you.

—By CNBC's Phil LeBeau; Follow him on Twitter @LeBeauCarNews
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Old 03-02-13, 10:45 PM
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1984 here we come!
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Old 03-03-13, 07:30 AM
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"Thanks" to reduced fuel consumption, California just raised the excise tax per gallon a few cents to recover "lost" revenue earmarked for road maintenance.

I see two distinct issues with this proposal. Tracking vs Taxation. Most would be vehemently opposed to the tracking and obvious recording of your driving. The notion of adjusting taxation to distance clearly favors the more economical vehicle, but this will be correctly seen as financially subverting choice and assessing a "penalty" for the lower MPG vehicle. Where might the breakeven point be for the average driver? No surprise if this proposal actually extracts more revenue overall!
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Old 03-03-13, 10:23 AM
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What about the miles we accrue while driving on private property (parking lots, driveways, race tracks, etc.)? Will we also be taxed on that? If not, that means the government has to know where we've been driving. Tsk tsk...
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Old 03-03-13, 10:48 AM
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Yet these fools don't understand why people dislike the government at times.
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Old 03-03-13, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JessePS
Yet these fools don't understand why people dislike the government at times.
At times?

Without all the geekology, there's a simple way to tax vehicle use. While it is totally fair in its distribution, it requires no "tracking" and even rewards those who choose to drive "green" vehicles, whether gas sippers, hybrids, electrics, or even commuters by bus or rail. We call it a gas tax, and it applies to all of us depending on the amount of fossil fuels we burn. It's fair, the infrastructure is already in place, and it's pretty close to unbeatable.
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Old 03-03-13, 01:45 PM
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I thought this is what the gas tax was for? Does this replace the gas tax???
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Old 03-03-13, 01:47 PM
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time to get the program to roll back the odo.its not against the law to roll back your own odo,its is against the law to sell it without disclosure.
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Old 03-03-13, 02:14 PM
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The only way this would be even REMOTELY fair is if only those who purchased alternative fuels who circumvent the gas tax in the form of a high mpg or electric car, be required to pay per mile driven. Those who continue to use fossil fuel automobiles that aren't the most fuel efficient (Ie 20mpg or so), should not have to pay anything additional. Those individuals still pay into the 'road tax' via fuel consumption.

Of course there are those who will disagree with what I say, but the people using alternatives or hybrids still win out, just not as much.
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Old 03-03-13, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jewcano
The only way this would be even REMOTELY fair is if only those who purchased alternative fuels who circumvent the gas tax in the form of a high mpg or electric car, be required to pay per mile driven. Those who continue to use fossil fuel automobiles that aren't the most fuel efficient (Ie 20mpg or so), should not have to pay anything additional. Those individuals still pay into the 'road tax' via fuel consumption.

Of course there are those who will disagree with what I say, but the people using alternatives or hybrids still win out, just not as much.
so you are paying $40k extra for a car that pollutes less so you can leave world you can breathe in for your children and you get accused of "circumventing the gas tax"? interesting way to look at things.

i would exponential rise the gas tax so these gas guzzlers that poison our environment pay more.
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Old 03-03-13, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by spwolf
so you are paying $40k extra for a car that pollutes less so you can leave world you can breathe in for your children and you get accused of "circumventing the gas tax"? interesting way to look at things.

i would exponential rise the gas tax so these gas guzzlers that poison our environment pay more.
The reason this extra tax topic came to existence is BECAUSE people are shifting to better fuel economy vehicles......

If they fill up less or use no gas at all, but still use the roads, they are riding 'free of charge'. Those who use more fuel and use the roads with traditional vehicles are the ones who 'pay for the roads'. This tax has NOTHING to do with environmental damage.
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Old 03-03-13, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by spwolf
so you are paying $40k extra for a car that pollutes less so you can leave world you can breathe in for your children and you get accused of "circumventing the gas tax"? interesting way to look at things.

i would exponential rise the gas tax so these gas guzzlers that poison our environment pay more.
So you would punish people like me who can't afford to buy a nicer, more economic car?
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Old 03-03-13, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jewcano
If they fill up less or use no gas at all, but still use the roads, they are riding 'free of charge'.
this is not true - they are paying more for their cars in order to pollute less and get us off foreign oil which is costing US billions per year.



As to the choice of vehicle, we all could be driving smaller, more economical vehicles, no matter whats our price range.

I am not environmentalist but I do recognize the fact that gas guzzlers are a lot like heavy smokers... and maybe something needs to be done about that finally in US as well. Hit us where it hurts the most - our pockets, and we will all be buying more economical cars in the same price range. It will help not just with pollution but also lessen world's reliance on oil. Its a win win.
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Old 03-03-13, 09:21 PM
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the beatings will continue until morale improves.

so much can be said about this...

- i laugh that it 'punishes' those who have been 'sensible' and bought hybrids as much as those who drive ferraris.
- i don't laugh that it would be hard on poor people.
- it doesn't actually have to track exactly where you go. it can capture distance without location. i recently signed up for my insurance co's discount program with their driving 'tracker' to learn about it. plug in obd-ii port. it tracks hard braking, avg/max speed, time of day driven, and mileage. it does not have a gps in it. i can also see all the data it collects via website or phone app. i imagine it would be similar to road use tax device.
- it would seriously penalize those with long commutes to work, often through no fault of their own. they might have to switch jobs.

so much more intended and unintended consequences...
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Old 03-04-13, 05:25 AM
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What I went back to Mexico with my RX300 and Florida plates (I can't nationalize my vehicle there) and I never set foot on Florida roads (how would they track me). I have similar argument for the Obamacare health insurance mandate (hey I am overseas).

This is all in the name of trying to get around raising taxes, but trying to come up with another name for doing it so the politicians don't get dinged politically.
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