SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

I'm with you on this. The ES is what's killing the GS sales. The problem is, most people here know the difference between the 2. However, the majority that I see behind the wheel could careless about the sport abilities of the GS or the ES.

Here is the basic scenario. A couple comes to a dealer wanting to buy a sedan. The dealer offers the LS, they say it's too expensive. The dealer then offers the GS, not too bad they say, but do you have something a little cheaper? Yes, the ES! Oh, how big is it? Same size as the GS! Does it come with leather seats, YES! Does it come with navigation ? YES! We'll take it

I think Lexus should expand the GS line. Make it a 4 / 6 / 8 cylinder car. Sell the 4 cylinder for the price of the ES and people will buy it! Nobody would need the ES then

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

different month, same debates...

lexus has es and gs, so comparing gs sales to 5 or e is pointless.
while people might not cross shop es and gs much, it just means lexus split the demographic of people who want comfy sedan vs. sporty sedan.

the 4gs is clearly a big step up in the sporty and aggressive stakes vs. prior versions, but lexus in the u.s. then shoots themselves in the foot with stop and start marketing, not bringing over cool options, limited availability, one engine except hybrid but no hybrid f-sport, etc.

still, as blueprint says, lexus obviously doesn't want and has never expected the gs to sell in 5/e numbers, so they're likely ok with it, although dealers probably aren't that thrilled with such low volume, but dealers will sell whatever sells, and if the es outsells gs 4 to 1, they don't care.

RNM GS3

Lexus is now sportier than BMW??? lol
When Lexus has a FULL and COMPLETE line of F cars maybe then u can talk or when they offer standard V8s with 400+hp and M cars with 500+hp.
How about giving the customer the option to custom build their car to spec - with all types of trims, accessories, and BMW Perf parts?

Does Lexus have a Performance delivery center like BMW?

Lexus can't even release their F sport springs and the GS was out for 1 year now.

RNM GS3

I like Lexus esp the GS since the original back in 1993.

The ride in the LFA that I experienced was unforgettable thing.

Lexus has great potential but it doesn't follow through all the way like they should, and its no longer on the same level with MB and BMW like it was in the 1990s and early 2000s.

LexFather

Look if you are here to argue and take up for BMW maybe look elsewhere. Or look at some facts. The GS has been hailed as sportiest in class. It might be a bitter pill to swallow but it is. The ATS is now being called a better driving car than the 3 series.

BMW has never made anything close to this.



The IS F has the same track times as the M3 and M5 according to C&D. These are just a few examples.

Clearly BMW has the sport heritage and is still overall more sporty and has a rich racing history to boot. BMW's influence is STRONGLY felt as everyone aimed for BMW. . However this isn't 1992 anymore. BMW has lost significant ground that has been eaten up by Mercedes, Audi and yes Lexus and some others in regards to sport. If you talk to drivers and real enthusiasts they know things have changed there. Hey it is what it is, they are still superb cars, they still sell.

You did make a point about people being badge hounds in an early post. I suggest maybe driving some other vehicles around, BMW is no longer the clear drivers car in each segment anymore. There is so much MIDDLE right now that many of these vehicles drive similar.

It is a CREDIT TO BMW to how well the new GS drives. Don't get defensive b/c things have changed.

Again its not 1992 anymore.

RNM GS3

Are you saying Lexus execs are happy with sales of the GS at this level? Then why were they thinking of getting rid of it or was that BS?
The fact that the 3GS sold better cant be a good thing in their eyes. By your logic the new IS should have a lower sales goal than the current gen IS also?

RL/RLX is an irrelevant car/model. - Even a blind person would be hard pressed to purchase one.
Infiniti M - Previous generation was popular and sold well, even better than the 3GS at certain times. Current gen is hideous, expensive, and not as sporty so its now forgotten.
Genesis - Really? Come on this is a Hyundai, gimme a break.

RNM GS3

I'm not here to promote BMW, they do a great job of that themselves.

I'm here since 2002 bec I'm a Lexus fan!

I stated FACTS in my post - top to bottom BMW still is by far the most sportiest automaker there is for a volume luxury brand. 1 ISF and 1 LFA doesn't all of a sudden make Lexus the top dog.

I love the LFA but its more of a engineering/design study that a regular Lexus model. Hopefully, as seen in the new IS/GS, Lexus will spread some of what they learned to the mainstream models!

asoksevil

Instead of targeting that are looking for a 5 series, E class, they could target the people who are looking for a CLS, A7 and let the ES fight against the 5 series and E class.

A different positioning could be better than the current one the GS has.

natnut

That will never happen as long as the ES remains FWD. The Audi A6 is AWD and still has problems making headway against the E class/5 series.

GS69

Has the GS already been out a year?? Time flies ...

Fuel-Efficient Vehicles Run Short on Incentives

February's record-breaking gas prices might have pushed shoppers to consider more fuel-efficient cars, but incentives on those vehicles left a lot to be desired, reports Edmunds.com, the premier resource for car shopping and automotive information. According to Edmunds.com's True Cost of Incentives® (TCI®) report, incentive spending on hybrid vehicles was down almost 12 percent from January to February, hitting its lowest average level since July of last year. Incentives on compact cars, meanwhile, were down 2 percent from January to their lowest level since October.

"Every year there comes a time when gas prices put hybrid and compact cars into focus, but it's not often we have them under the microscope this early," says Edmunds.com Sr. Analyst Jessica Caldwell. "It will be worth watching to see if automakers are willing to loosen their grip on incentives to make these vehicles easier to buy, especially if gas prices keep rising."

PHP Code:

Average True Cost of Incentives® (TCI®) by Car Manufacturer
Manufacturer     Feb-13     Jan-13     Feb-12     Feb 2013 vs Jan 2013     Feb 2013 vs Feb 2012
Chrysler     $2,907     $3,078     $2,524     -5.6%     15.2%
Ford     $2,627     $2,488     $2,797     5.6%     -6.1%
GM     $3,483     $3,657     $3,253     -4.8%     7.1%
Honda     $853     $834     $1,135     2.3%     -24.8%
Nissan     $2,449     $2,318     $2,835     5.7%     -13.6%
Toyota     $1,504     $1,720     $1,447     -12.6%     3.9%
Industry     $2,269     $2,323     $2,212     -2.3%     2.6% 


According to Edmunds.com's TCI® report, new car incentives in February fell 2.3 percent overall from January to an average of $2,269. Year over year, incentives were up 2.6 percent in February. Nissan (+5.7%) had the highest month-over-month increase in spending, while Toyota (-12.6%) had the sharpest decrease.

Shoppers can always find the vehicles with the most compelling deals on Edmunds.com's True Market Value® Deals of the Month page.

Edmunds.com's monthly True Cost of Incentives® (TCI®) report takes into account all automakers' various U.S. incentives programs, including subvented interest rates and lease programs, as well as cash rebates to consumers and dealers. To ensure the greatest possible accuracy, Edmunds.com bases its calculations on sales volume, including the mix of vehicle makes and models for each month, as well as on the proportion of vehicles for which each type of incentive was used.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

My salesman who has been with Lexus just under 20 years told me he was told the GS sales goal of Lexus/Toyota is to be 10% of total sales.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I'm not a believer in the ES and GS being cross shopped.The ES has more interior room,better MPGs,softer ride,$12K cheaper etc..
The CLS and A7?Nah.Never read anything with the GS compared to those models in any auto publication.
The GS competition is the,E Class,A6 and 5 Series.Auto magazines talk of the GS being compared to those models.In fact a comparison test in Motor Trend has the GS against the A6,5 Series and M37S and the GS won.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html

ST430

Still can't believe Camry and Corolla leading respective segments....jeez. That Corolla just won't die (and it got a mild refresh again!)....

TangoRed

You misunderstood him. He was saying perhaps the GS should morph into a CLS/A7 competitor. I don't see why not either- I think Lexus could make a great 4-door coupe if they wanted.

GS69

Toyota Blinks on Camry Deals after February Sales Fall

To see the constant tension at automakers between sales volumes and profit margins, look no further than the current state of Toyota Motor Corp.'s Camry.

The Camry sedan has been the top-selling car in the United States for 11 years.

In February sales results announced last week, however, there was a shocker: Camry sales slumped 9.5% from a year earlier, the biggest drop in 16 months, knocking Toyota's sales growth to about half what analysts had estimated.

The rough month reflects rising competition for Toyota, which regained the title of world's largest automaker in 2012.

In the mid-sized car segment that accounts for 22% of U.S. light-vehicle sales, Camry faces models that have been revamped in the past year, including the Ford Fusion and Nissan Altima, which both came with bigger discounts last month, according to researcher Edmunds.com.

While Camry's sales would have to continue to slide to lose its No. 1 title -- it outsold its nearest competitor by 22% last year and kept that same lead so far this year -- a swoon for its trademark product would be a blow for Toyota.

"It's a lot tougher for Camry to maintain the level of dominance that we saw last year," Alec Gutierrez, analyst for Kelley Blue Book, in Irvine, Calif. "To maintain its dominant position, Toyota's going to have to look carefully at its incentive approach."

Across its entire lineup, Toyota's prices were 5.9% higher than in February 2012, the biggest increase of any major automaker, researcher TrueCar Inc. said last week.

That compares with an industry average increase of 1.2%, according to TrueCar, which tracks auto industry sales and incentives.

No-interest financing

Just last week, Toyota finally offered a tidbit: no-interest financing on the 2013 Camry, excluding the hybrid version.

The question now is whether it will take an even bigger bite out of its margins to protect the U.S. market-share gains Toyota has made in the 1st 2 months of the year.

Of the top 4 mid-sized sedans in February, Camry had the 2nd-lowest incentives at $1,505 per car, according to Edmunds.com.

Nissan Motor Co.'s Altima offers about $260 more and Ford Motor Co.'s Fusion about $650 more .

Honda Motor Co.'s Accord, the perennial No. 2, is also new this year. Honda offered $567 for the Accord that went on sale in late 2012.

Toyota already offered no-interest loans on the 2012 Camry and last week extended them to the non-hybrid version of the 2013 Camry.

Honda is benefiting from Toyota's pricing discipline.

Sales of its flagship Accord jumped 35% in February.

2 months earlier, Camry's lead over the Accord was fewer than 2,000 and Honda's compact Civic had even outsold Camry that month as the top-selling car, 33,118 to 31,407.

'Competitive segment'

Ford is also closing in with the redesigned Fusion sedan, sales of which rose 28% last month.

Nissan's Altima, the 3rd-best selling mid-sized car in the U.S. last year, slid 16%.

"We know it's a competitive segment," said Mike Michels, a Toyota spokesman. "All 3 of those makes are very high profile in their marketing, and all three companies want to make an impact with consumers," he said.

Camry's February slump comes against a backdrop of a resurgent U.S. auto industry.

The 3 Detroit automakers reported increased sales last month, with General Motors up 7.2%, Ford up 9.3% and Chrysler Group LLC up 4.1%.

Toyota is also facing mounting competition in China, the world's biggest auto market, where the company last year lost market share to GM Japanese brands have failed to fully recover from riots in September sparked by a territorial dispute.

Snowy Northeast

The drop in Camry sales may be temporary because Toyota was particularly hurt by a snowstorm in a region where its models have a higher than average share, according to Jessica Caldwell, an industry analyst for Edmunds.com, a vehicle pricing and data company in Santa Monica, Calif.

New York City, Long Island and parts of southern New England received snow the weekend of Feb. 16 and 17. There was also a winter storm the last week of February.

"They probably missed some sales in Boston and the Northeast because of the snow," said Caldwell, who had projected Toyota sales to rise 5%. "When Camry's down, that's a big impact for Toyota since it's such a big part of their sales."

Toyota's February vehicle sales rose 4.3% . While Toyota's nationwide market share was 14.4%last year, it was 18% in the Boston area, Caldwell said.

Toyota's profit margin has shrunk to less than 2 cents of earnings for every dollar of sales, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

That's worse than 97% of rival global automakers with a market value of more than $10 billion. GM has a profit margin of 3%, while Honda's is 3.2%, the data show.

'Quite symbolic'

Investors haven't expressed much concern, particularly after the yen began tumbling against all major currencies from mid-November.

Toyota shares gained 43% for the 12 months ended yesterday.

"Although the Camry is quite symbolic for Toyota, I'm not very concerned about the drop impacting the company's profit," said Takashi Aoki, a Tokyo-based fund manager at Mizuho Asset Management Co. "Having low incentives is a good sign since it means the company believes the sales drop to be temporary, and even if it's prolonged, Toyota could sell more by increasing incentives."

The decline for Camry, as well as a 14% drop for the Toyota City, Japan-based company's Prius hybrid line, led to a 2.8% slump for the company's cars in February.

Bill Fay, Toyota's group vice president for U.S. sales, attributed the drop for Prius to a bigger marketing push a year ago when it went to a 4-vehicle lineup.

Truck sales

"We were in the middle of launching and putting a lot of marketing support behind the Prius family," Fay said on a March 1 conference call.

A year earlier, the company was introducing the Prius v and Prius c, and the Prius line "was getting an awful lot of our attention and marketing focus."

By comparison, Toyota light truck sales rose 16% last month -- double the industry's 7.8% increase -- helped by weather concerns, said Michels, who is based at the company's U.S. sales unit in Torrance, Calif.

"Certainly the little bit of bounce on trucks and SUVs we saw had a lot to with bad weather," he said.

During the month, the company also marketed the new Avalon sedan and compact RAV4 sport-utility vehicle more heavily than Camry, Michels said.