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I'm a big BMW guy. Spent a lot of time with the new 7er and S-class. In my opinion, both cars are equivalent in quality of interior materials and fit-and-finish, the Bimmer is a little more fun to drive and is marginally ahead in tech department (CNET had the same conclusion). I didn't have a chance to experience the back seat with the executive lounge package with the tablet for controls, ambient lit sunroof and all that jazz, but it seems that the backseat amenities and tech are better in the 7er as well based on the photos and videos I've seen.
With all that being said, I personally prefer the interior of the S-class because it looks a lot flashier. BMW's designs are always clean and modern so naturally the 7er's interior lacks of the flair the Benz's does from a design standpoint. The flowing lines, double screens, diamond stitching on the doors and dash, etc. just make the Mercedes' interior feel a tad more special. As far as exterior design goes, I find the S-class to be quite stunning in any trim while the 7-series is also quite stunning but ONLY when in equipped with the ///M Sport package and upgraded wheels. Overall, the 7er looks very sporty and macho with the right options but still lacks the elegance of the S-class. If you want that macho sporty look then the 7er can't be beat.
Now I have seen the G12 many times in person and on the road, I'm glad I didn't buy it. While the interior is one of the best on the market, the S class still offers the all around package as a luxury flagship buyer wants. The exteriors of the S class still looks great while being out for couple years, while the coupe is the most elegant design out there. Only down side for Mercedes is they passing the design to the lower E and C class so the S buyers feel less exclusive.
When I finish my M, I will most likely go for a S550 coupe or the S63 sedan, unless the next M6 is really great
This is one of the richest areas in North America.
New S65 AMGs are a dime a dozen, but never seen an Alpina. Yesterday within a one block radius downtown aside from the everyman Range Rovers, Model S, Porsche 911s, and S-classes I walked by two Mulsannes, a new R8, and a Lambo Aventador.
This is a normal thing to see.
Probably why I'm so jaded with regards to most luxury cars, when you see the new S-class all the time, it just ends up looking like what it is: a big boring black luxury passenger sedan. Then you come on the internet and people are treating it as if it's this beautiful magnificent car.
FWIW I've also seen the new 7er many times, it's awfully similar to the outgoing car where I had to double take the first few times. It too again looks like a big boring passenger sedan after the first half dozen times you see one.
None of these cars have a substantial wiff of specialness to them in this environment.
Oh and my most disappointing looking car based on internet expectations is the new S-class coupe, this thing just looks plain for a big luxury coupe. I can already imagine seeing a red LC500 on the same streets and it will destroy it in real world presence.
you are preaching to a guy who hangs around newport beach every day so i don't know what you are trying to prove (if you couldn't read my first comment as a joke). if anything i agree with BNR that b7 is an odd ball, i wouldn't get myself to own one either. bottom line is the b7 is around like everyone else posted
you are preaching to a guy who hangs around newport beach every day so i don't know what you are trying to prove (if you couldn't read my first comment as a joke). if anything i agree with BNR that b7 is an odd ball, i wouldn't get myself to own one either. bottom line is the b7 is around like everyone else posted
I'm not trying to prove anything, these aren't people who made their money in the local economy. The city has become a resort town for wealthy chinese who park their money and their kids/families in local properties. It's a bit different than Newport in that regard.
Back in December and early last month, I got spend some time with my family and get acquainted with the replacement G12 (LWB), my mother's birthday/Christmas gift. Unfortunately, the 750i RWD was not available until January-Feb, made things very frustrating, as well as snow storm regarding delivery. This will do for now (until MY17 760i), which is a good enough improvement despite the naysayers. We were never going get her an S-Class for personal reasons anyway, so the 7-Series was a no-brainer.
In my opinion, the BMW Display Key is utterly useless without the Remote Parking Assistant functionality. As everyone knows by now, early G12 7-Series U.S. customers are not able to have this on their vehicle, as BMW was hesitant to offer it due to U.S. laws. Quite stupid. Anyone who wants this in their G12, should wait for MY2017. I have sampled this in the UK at least and find it to be interesting. I am very private, but will only make a one time exception share some photography of mine.
Originally Posted by SW15LS
Yeah I don't understand why they didn't at least change the door handles to the new design they have on all the other cars. That would have been a minor thing, would have involved redoing the door panel stamp, but they did that for the hood and the trunk. That would have gone a long way towards hiding that it was in fact basically the same car.
Did they redo the door handles on the 2016 LX? I didn't get that impression...
When you get up to the price point of a new LS600hL I agree with your family, I wouldn't buy one over the cars available at that price point. But when you're down where I am, my LS stickers for $79k with some options, and AWD, and a V8, that makes the car still a compelling value. When you factor in I actually paid under $70k for it it gets even more compelling. For that money you're in a pretty basic XJ or A8 with 6cyl power. The A8 is a compelling car, but Audi has terrible lease rates (you could lease an S550 for what it costs to lease an $80k A8), the XJ is beautiful IMHO but the interior is significantly behind and the infotainment borders on awful. When you look at what I paid, you can get an XJ for that money but not an A8.
So, I'd only buy an LS stickering say $90k or below. Over that I'd have a hard time with the other options.
Yes, they did re-do the LX door handles. They no longer have the black "LOCK" button on them, but a sensor on top and are thicker.
2013 LX570
2016 LX570 w/new handles
The 2016 LS has these old ones that date back to the 2007 model year. In fact, besides the IS-C, it is the only Lexus with the original L-Finesse door handles, that require you lock it by the black button on the handle. Not even cleverly hidden by tapping or merely touching an indent. Even the FT-86/FR-S/Subaru BR-Z have come with this these since 2012/13, as well as the many other Toyotas.
That should've gone in for MY2016 at the very latest, if the XF40 LS generation is being retained through MY2017.
Original 2006-2009 XF40 LS Door Handle
Current MY2016 LS460 Door Handle. The same.
Understandable regarding your LS, as it's a wise decision. Many of those LS owners I referred to are either early retirees, semi-retired, or driven (or at least their kids), which the latter is quite rare in the US. I do wonder if the LS has ever been a compelling offer above $90k since 2012?
Also, I don't see how the X351 XJ interior is "behind", especially compared to an A8 and XF40 LS. I can only agree with that in regards to the W222 S-Class, but not really anything else. My mother's new G12 is not exactly a huge leap over the F02, but the improvements were worth the change.
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
Do you know for sure if the upcoming LC coupe will be based on the next LS platform? If so would it provide a good indication of how the next LS will be?
We will get the LC much earlier than the 5LS.
Also I'm not sure if the LF-FC is a CALTY design and if the production version will be done by Lexus Japan, if so there is plenty of opportunity for the concept styling to be butchered when translating to production.
Well, apparently you're right, as it was a CALTY design. The background scenery gives that away. I figure that they were trying to hide this fact for the Tokyo Motor Show LF-FC premiere, despite me hearing otherwise.
As we now know, the GA-L will underpin the LS.
Originally Posted by Hoovey2411
Yeah, I'm very stoked to see what each comes up with.
Yes, it will be a long wait, but that time will come to pass.
Originally Posted by TangoRed
Cars like the S-class have always been pushing $100k. People buy them because of their restrained styling. Whether you think that makes a good design is pure opinion of course- which is why I don't understand why you're pushing your preference as a legitimate criticism.
Yes, restrained styling is the key. The XJ and Panamera are always an option for those that want something else. The XJ is not as competitive due to design unfortunately.
The E38 had this problem, in not being much different from the E32. Little did anyone know, that their noisy complaints would result in the revolutionary E65. If not for MB overpricing the W140, the E38 may not have sold as many as it did nor would Audi have a fair chance to launch the A8 stateside in 1996.
On another note, the Alpina B7 is rather was an unattractive offering to me and always has been. Just a tacky design, when the M aesthetic would suit it better. I haven't bothered to study over the G11 version.
Back in December and early last month, I got spend some time with my family and get acquainted with the replacement G12 (LWB), my mother's birthday/Christmas gift. Unfortunately, the 750i RWD was not available until January-Feb, made things very frustrating, as well as snow storm regarding delivery. This will do for now (until MY17 760i), which is a good enough improvement despite the naysayers. We were never going get her an S-Class for personal reasons anyway, so the 7-Series was a no-brainer.
In my opinion, the BMW Display Key is utterly useless without the Remote Parking Assistant functionality. As everyone knows by now, early G12 7-Series U.S. customers are not able to have this on their vehicle, as BMW was hesitant to offer it due to U.S. laws. Quite stupid. Anyone who wants this in their G12, should wait for MY2017. I have sampled this in the UK at least and find it to be interesting. I am very private, but will only make a one time exception share some photography of mine.
Thank you for sharing!
Originally Posted by cmk1
On another note, the Alpina B7 is rather was an unattractive offering to me and always has been. Just a tacky design, when the M aesthetic would suit it better. I haven't bothered to study over the G11 version.
Totally agree. Alpina needs to find a way to better resolve their styling...that 80's tack on look has never sat well with me.
New S65 AMGs are a dime a dozen, but never seen an Alpina. Yesterday within a one block radius downtown aside from the everyman Range Rovers, Model S, Porsche 911s, and S-classes I walked by two Mulsannes, a new R8, and a Lambo Aventador. ...
yup, was just there, so i saw a lot of awesome cars.
Probably why I'm so jaded with regards to most luxury cars, when you see the new S-class all the time, it just ends up looking like what it is: a big boring black luxury passenger sedan.
well, it's what you perceive it to be because you see so many. it is not boring to almost everyone else.
None of these cars have a substantial wiff of specialness to them in this environment.
none? a rolls royce usually exudes some specialness. actually i think an s63 does too.
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
There is nothing special about the design of these cars, therefore I would not call them well designed, just safely designed.
again, i think as they say... "familiarity breeds contempt" - you're just over it, but there's nothing safe about a lot of mercedes recent designs. the CLS was ground breaking. The big rear wheel arches on the s-class was ground breaking. the bangle butt, for better or worse, was ground breaking. i do agree the latest 7 series is very conservative, but i think that's something to do with the times we're living in... you know resentment of the "1%" etc. i think it's still a great looking car though.
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
I think people primarily buy them because of the image, because it's an S-class. Despite such a strong brand and nameplate, and even when designing a luxury coupe pushing $100k, MB is still afraid of alienating buyers with styling that has a bit more flair and creativity.
again, i disagree as mercedes has done many bold designs, although the current s-class has now been around a while. bmw, which this thread is about, seems to have focused more on 'gran coupes' and suv's and has certainly been bold/polarizing there. every time i see an X6 i have to laugh although even it has grown on me some.
besides, car design beside outside presence/aesthetics has become a LOT more about technology, safety, etc. with each luxury maker close to having a vehicle that can drive itself. that is the holy grail, so jeeves the driver can be fired.
Originally Posted by TangoRed
Totally agree. Alpina needs to find a way to better resolve their styling...that 80's tack on look has never sat well with me.
agree - alpina is different to be different, but nothing special.
cmk1 one congrats! The rear seat amenities look insane. Even if the remote display key is useless I'd like to have it since it just looks cool and modern.
You guys should go see photos of the new Alpina B7, they were released a couple days ago. It looks really beautiful IMO. I personally love the blue paint with those classic multi-spoke wheels. Those wheels are as classic BMW as it gets.
You guys should go see photos of the new Alpina B7, they were released a couple days ago. It looks really beautiful IMO. I personally love the blue paint with those classic multi-spoke wheels. Those wheels are as classic BMW as it gets.
I see you missed the posts above where some of us were saying we didn't like it.
So now both B7 and M760i is out with same output, which one would you pick? I think M760i gets my vote, the new body, wheel, brakes and engine is much more special than B7. And I don't think the V12 is only pumping out 600hp, and the V8TT M engine is already dyno around 647HP.
So now both B7 and M760i is out with same output, which one would you pick? I think M760i gets my vote, the new body, wheel, brakes and engine is much more special than B7. And I don't think the V12 is only pumping out 600hp, and the V8TT M engine is already dyno around 647HP.
I think that everyone who has driven a V12 at some point already knows Its not about acceleration or maximum power, its about everything else. Just the feeling of that the engine never needs to pass 1500-700 rpm during normal driving
02-10-16, 07:36 PM
actually i think an s63 does too. 
Its not about acceleration or maximum power, its about everything else. Just the feeling of that the engine never needs to pass 1500-700 rpm during normal driving 