Toys4RJill

MB S-class usually looks good in any color to me.

TangoRed

Mr. Bond, you could've at least posted a pic of a US-spec S-class. You posted a short-wheelbase euro spec one with tiny wheels. MBUSA specs most of the base models like this:

Carmaker1

As everyone knows, I come from a BMW and Mazda family through my maternal side. Grandfather used to be an importer in the 1970s through early 80s. Thus my mother has had a love affair since childhood and her first 7er was an E38 like this, bought by my dad for her 40th birthday in 2000. An '01 740iL Highline Sport.



I was able to get acquainted with the G11, first in Frankfurt at the IAA back in September and just the other day at Sytner. Just like with the Land Cruiser V8, which was discontinued in the UK (meaning our 2013 has no replacement), I am very infuriated with BMW for discontinuing the importation of the 750i/Li for the G11/12.

I looked at a 740Li and made comparisons to what one can get stateside. During a Thanksgiving visit to my parents a few weeks ago in TX, I made a very quick stop at their local BMW dealership. That is where I got a chance to look at and test drive my first G11, prior to going to Sytner more recently.

My recent visit to their dealer, who my parents have been doing business with since October 2000:












It is beyond irritating, that US DOT and etc. standards are so outdated, that one cannot get the BMW Laser Lights nor the Remote Parking feature, let alone many more options. My mother currently owns a 2009 750Li as her UK car (rarely used) and 2013 760Li 25 (in US) as her primary car, so naturally she wanted to replace the latter with another.

Day we took delivery of her current 2013 760Li at their local BMW dealer in December 2012.










Her '09 was traded in for a 650i Gran Coupe M Sport LCi recently, instead of a UK-spec G12 due to timing. Unfortunately, the G12 760i will not be out till next year or early 2017 in the US, so buying one now may not be sensible.

She attended a preview event in Houston, TX and fell in love with the car. She decided she'd get one next year. Despite that, my dad decided he wants to surprise her with one for X-mas or B-day, only being told by me there is no 760i available for the 2016 model year. He decided that a 750i will suffice, but neither is that available until February. Only 750i xDrive, as RWD models began production start-up in November 2015.

Unfortunately, my dad acted too late and never ordered one for a late December window. When he went to order a 2016 750i xDrive in Imperial Blue, he was told it would not arrive until February as well. They told him they had no 750i xDrive with his chosen build available by Christmas Eve nor my mother's birthday (3 days later).

What they did have, was one missing the Rear Entertainment Professional and Autobahn Package and a fully loaded 2016 740i (G12), both in Imperial Blue coming in by December 27-29. Weirdly, he settled for the 740i. Not that I have anything against inline-6s, but that is somewhat a downgrade from her 2013. I had expected that there would be at least more available 750s, not this dearth of already built examples.

He says that they will likely keep it for one year and then trade it in for G12 760i later on, that is if BMW bothers to reintroduce the V12. One hasn't really seen prototypes for that, but who knows. I just cannot wait to fly out there and play with that Gesture Control next week (that is if the car arrives on time).

This is an idea what we are working with.

What he originally wanted, but interior colour is not of interest as we prefer Cognac or Ivory. Cognac with Individual is not available until February-March 2016.




The non-Individual 750i xDrive he tried to order:




What I wanted:




What we're getting :




Unfortunately for me and my own aspirations (in vicarious leeching), the doctor will NOT truly get just what he ordered (or at least tried to), since G11 production is ridiculously slow and the dealer claims there are no 750is available.

This car has been in production since July 1, 2015, yet they are struggling to push them out. If I was millionaire, I would buy an S-Class, but then again I decided not to follow in his footsteps and chose my love for cars instead, which of course doesn't pay as well.

Cannot wait though to see it. I am counting down!


Yep it was circa July 2012, final design freeze. If you study the development timeline and (if possible) speak with Nader Faghihzadeh, his first G11 clay model was built in 2011. A new concept will preview the Jaguar design language of the late 2010s, but the X360 is already final. I am breaking rules disclosing that, but I do greatly appreciate reading your commentary. For someone that doesn't work in this industry, you are extremely knowledgeable TangoRed.

Yep, I agree unfortunately. My mother couldn't care less however...

Thanks TangoRed, I hope you'll like the next one too!

Yes, the car is impressive. My father has pretty much indulged my mother's BMW obsession with personal disinterest towards BMW, but is astounded by what he was shown at his local dealer last weekend in the new G12. Joked back to me, that those of us at Jaguar have a lot ahead of us for the next few years. I am not worried however, as I'm confident the next XJ will eclipse the new 7-Series.

Yes, the D5 should've been out in mid-2016, but has been pushed back to early-mid 2017. The design on that was frozen by mid-2014, so 3 years should be very good time for production development. Unfortunately for Audi, my dad passed on the A8 facelift and bought his first Range Rover instead to replace his 2012 A8L W12.

That is the unfortunate instance right there, at least regarding Bentley. Rolls-Royce need not worry, as their Phantom and Ghost replacements will surely jump many steps higher. This is going to be a serious renaissance for the three flagships you listed, especially the latter two.

I know that VAG has their own particular plans, but Jaguar and Lexus are very intent on making up for sleeping too long.

You made a wise decision honestly in getting your LS now, as I know for a fact the 5LS will not be available until at least July 2017. Shockingly far away, that my theory may seem far off, but a production date of May 2017 gives me that impression.

I prefer the W222 S-Class 10x over the G11 7-Series, but unlike you, I am not shopping in that category soon.

Fortunately for BMW, it would be heresy for my parents to buy an S-Class over a 7-Series for day-to-day personal use and not fleet purposes. The only Mercedes-Benz product bought by them (let alone allowed) is the Gelandewagen/G-Class, which explains why I briefly had a 2009 G55 AMG (he took it back after less than 3 years).

That was originally ordered for his brother, who apparently wanted a GL550. I showed him the S-Class as a replacement for his A8L W12 earlier this year, but he rejected it in feeling "S-Class is too common". Chose to pass the time in waiting for X360 XJ with Range Rover.

My dad had gotten a D4 A8 as a gift from my mother roughly 4 years ago, as apparently he was also somewhat an Audi fan. For his own reasons, he did not trade in his 2012 A8L W12 for a facelift A8. I directed him towards the S600, Flying Spur, Panamera, LS600hL, and Ghost. The only few of those he had any interest in, was the Flying Spur and Panamera.

He rejected the LS600hL, on the premise that "Is this car not the same generation that was introduced when you were in high school? I do not see the incentive in throwing away money on an outdated product, Lexus is not serious." The Flying Spur, was rejected by him over similar reasoning and my advice. In the end, he settled on a Range Rover.

My aunt who owned an LS600hL, essentially replaced it with an Equus Ultimate. While it was a gift from her husband, she felt that there was no point in upgrading to the same car and thus waited endlessly until something else swooped in.

Another aunt (LS owner since 1992) replaced her LS600hL with an S600, as she became tired of waiting for a new LS. Her first S-Class was a 1990 W126 420SEL, which a 1993 LS400 joined.

I provided those anecdotal examples, as Lexus has let themselves sleep too long and have not done a great job with product planning. I espouse similar complaints in my place of work, that I'm sure a few that work for Lexus in Nagoya and Torrance (now Plano?) have done similarly.

The 4LS/XF40, is a design (save for front and rear) that dates back to 2003. Toyota surely has CAD drawings from that time period, that have no business being in the "New" section of their dealers as a running production car, 12 years later. The 5LS better be knockout fantastic or they will live to regret it.

Okay, that might be true. I would say it was probably moderately redesigned on the same platform, but yet they couldn't bother with the center section? Not to mention, the rear infotainment (save for Blu-Ray) dates back to the first facelift late 2009/2010, if not the original from 2006.

For someone, that is not a car enthusiast like my dad (despite how he buys a lot of cars), he was able to notice how old the LS was and not an ideal proposition to replace his A8. Even my mother's friend went with a 2014 GS350 F Sport, over an LS460 F Sport. Claimed that the 2014 felt "more modern" by comparison and the LS was too cumbersome for her. That right there, was a head-scratcher.

Not that I'm the best source for 100% accuracy on Lexus developments in Japan, but that is very much the LS. All the silly reports the past year kept talking about an LS reveal in Tokyo, but I knew since about June it WAS the 5LS not its entirety, but in advanced design (concept) form.

Shocking thing about the 5LS, it definitely has the second longest development programme ever at Lexus. Much of LF-FC related 5LS design is probably 2 years old already, even if barely due in 18 months. The car was a running prototype 14 months ago (in-house testing).

What the W140 S-Class did in the US (moving up class-wise) after its long running W126, this will be the 5LS in replacing the 4LS and also have universal appeal (unlike W140 Benz in Europe).

Mr. Burns

Do you know for sure if the upcoming LC coupe will be based on the next LS platform? If so would it provide a good indication of how the next LS will be?

We will get the LC much earlier than the 5LS.

Also I'm not sure if the LF-FC is a CALTY design and if the production version will be done by Lexus Japan, if so there is plenty of opportunity for the concept styling to be butchered when translating to production.

SW17LS

What center section do you mean? The whole center stack was new in 2013 and was pretty significantly reworked with a large landscape screen with a controller vs a touchscreen, etc.

Infotainment in the rear carries over, but thats an option very rarely fitted to an LS.

Having had both, if she did that the car she was looking at was an agile, more nimble car. The GS doesn't feel any more modern than the LS, all the infotainment and interfaces are exactly the same.

I can definitely understand why someone would choose a GS over an LS, but that doesn't take away from the LS.

Carmaker1

The LC will introduce a new modular platform, so I'd wager that it will not be based on the LS, but very close to it. Judging by both the LF-LC and LF-FC concept interiors, one can see the similarities a bit. I really must say that the LS design has probably been a done deal, even before this concept was developed. I am shocked, but understand why so much lead time is needed. The car cannot be butchered, if the design was already developed, right?



The background in the photo gives the impression that it was taken at CALTY, but my research tells me LF-FC possibly is from ED2 in France.











I figured this wouldn't make sense. By "centre section", I meant that the A to C pillar and doors were the same. At least with the 2016 LX, they changed the door handles. They did not even bother, on a car they will keep in the marketplace, relatively unchanged for 5 more years (2012-2017). Much of the family members I know that shop in this category, like to deck them out with such features. That kind of thing, such as outdated entertainment systems, turns them off. However, I am still really mystified they would leave Lexus anyway over that, unless they don't want to name the Spindle Grille as a reason.

As for my aunt, that's why I called that a head-scratcher. Unless she went to Wikipedia and found out which was newer, I have no idea what she meant by "more modern". Her previous daily drivers were a QX56 and an E550, so when I saw that GS, colour me shocked.

SW17LS

Yeah I don't understand why they didn't at least change the door handles to the new design they have on all the other cars. That would have been a minor thing, would have involved redoing the door panel stamp, but they did that for the hood and the trunk. That would have gone a long way towards hiding that it was in fact basically the same car.

Did they redo the door handles on the 2016 LX? I didn't get that impression...

When you get up to the price point of a new LS600hL I agree with your family, I wouldn't buy one over the cars available at that price point. But when you're down where I am, my LS stickers for $79k with some options, and AWD, and a V8, that makes the car still a compelling value. When you factor in I actually paid under $70k for it it gets even more compelling. For that money you're in a pretty basic XJ or A8 with 6cyl power. The A8 is a compelling car, but Audi has terrible lease rates (you could lease an S550 for what it costs to lease an $80k A8), the XJ is beautiful IMHO but the interior is significantly behind and the infotainment borders on awful. When you look at what I paid, you can get an XJ for that money but not an A8.

So, I'd only buy an LS stickering say $90k or below. Over that I'd have a hard time with the other options.

BrownPride

Wow you paid under $70K for your LS? That makes it a lot more compelling. These days a loaded 535 runs for $75K.

SW17LS

Oh yeah. $10k off sticker is easily attainable.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Wow haven't checked but I thought most LS460 is around 90k too

doge

I saw a m sport 535 msrp for 85k

situman

Wow looks like they just phoned it in with the ext redesign. Change the headlights, tail lights and have someone sit and flatten it out. Interior looks overdone but that's just my preference. Overall the exterior is pretty boring. I wouldnt have noticed that it was a brand new redesign unless I saw both old and new side by side. Hope the next LS does better.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, I'm very stoked to see what each comes up with.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

no way, that's mostly lwb stories

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok folks, this thread is about the newest 7 series... perhaps the discussions of ls pricing, the lc concept pictures, etc. can go to other threads. thanks.