Toys4RJill

There is no official DB rating, I'm car manufacturers would rather not have it published in their official specs. As for Avalon, it is almost as close as the LS460 for DB, I think the LS beats it by 1 DB according to Edmunds.

Now, as per Buick, people need to keep in mind that there is a significant difference in the way a Buick is made and Lexus or Avalon. Generally Buicks are rebadged GM models that get extensive sound deadening added, almost all Lexus models and the current and last gen Avalon were designed to be quiet from an engineering POV. For example, there is no Buick I know of that comes even remotely close to the very low drag coefficient of a Lexus and the current Avalon. The older LS430 was .25 of drag which is ultra low, I think the current Avalon is about .27-.29.

Totally different approaches to quietness, but I think Toyota/Lexus have a superior design.

07grIS350

Yes I have one. I think it's a no brainer choice it one were after a roomy and comfortable sedan that did not cost an arm or a leg (starts at $3K more than a loaded Camry). I have had a number of Lexi and Toyotas, and I think this Avalon would remain my most favorite for a long time.
It's also easily the best looking Toyota sedan out there. I was worried about the 'big mouth' grill, but since it's very low to the ground in real life, the whole exterior just worked very well for me.

mmarshall

With some Buicks, that's true. The LaCrosse and Enclave, despite their glitzy interiors and nicely-done chassis, do use a lot of cheaper GM plastic parts inside that are simply covered with a coat of glitz to try and make them look good.

That is definitely not the case with the Verano, though, and to a lesser extent, the Regal.....one of many reasons why, after test-driving MANY cars, I chose a Verano as my new daily driver. The Verano essentially uses an Opel/Vauxhall Astra platform and interior (which is a very highly-regarded car in Europe), and its interior, hardware, and general level of construction seems to be at a level of solidity above that of many other GM products. Virtually every press-review of the Verano has also borne that out. It did have some early teething problems, where Consumer Reports gave it a below-average reliability rating (mine, so far, has been pretty good), but that is also true of some Toyota and Lexus products...AWD GS300/350 models, for instance, were below-average in reliability for several years, and Sienna minivans have not always been stellar in that area either.

As far as the drag-coefficieients go, you may have a point. But part of that is because of the big Buick waterfall-grilles which add some drag......and those big, gaping-mouth grilles now found on Audis, Mitsubishis, and Lexus models don't do a heck of a lot for drag either. What's more, at the speed-limits on most American roads, drag usually isn't as much of a factor as it is on the Autobahn either.

mmarshall

Moving on, yesterday I spent another whole afternoon at the show, and, per request, test-drove the 2013 Avalon Hybrid (my aging legs/back, despite regular daily excercise in the pool and on the treadmill, prevent me from spending all day on my feet....about 4-5 hours at once, without a rest, is all I can handle now).

As expected, driving-wise, there wasn't much difference between the conventional and Hybrid Avalon, except for, I'd say, three things. First, the engine stop/start system that, like on most hybrids, shuts off the engine when the car comes to a halt and the battery-charge is up to snuff. Second, the more-complex/adjustable electronic dash/video gauges. Third, (and this one was quite noticeable) the hybrid-torque level at low-speeds and in the lower gears makes the Avalon take off from rest like a scared cat.....electric motors, of course, make their greatest torque at very low engine speeds (max torque theoretically at zero). Add that to the gas engine's torque, of course, and you have to be careful on city streets like that with pedestrians around. Other than that, though, it pretty much rode, handled, and steered like the regular Avalon I sampled Friday....and, of course, had the same excellent Lexus-grade fit/finish to its interior, paint-job, and trunk-lining. In fact, despite the stiffer-than-I would like-ride, I'd buy this car before its new ES350 brother.

The Hybrid, of course, costs more than the regular Avalon, by some 5-6K (regular Avalons start at 30-31K, and the Hybrids at 35-36K). That extra 5-6K, of course, will buy a lot of gasoline for the standard model, but, of course, hybrid models get tax credits and can sometimes use HOV-lanes without a carload of prope, saving commuting time and traffic-congestion. (The D.C. area now leads the nation in the average amount of time each year spent wasted in traffic back-ups, according to the latest studies...it has surpassed L.A./SoCal in congestion, despite the fact that the SoCal area has more total traffic).

I had a pleasant surprise on the Hybrid test-drive yesterday, BTW......turned out that one of the Toyota reps who rode with me was a card-carrying CL member, and, though not having met me in person before, knew of me from my posts and reviews....we had a great conversation. Several other of the Toyota reps mannung the test-drive area were also familiar with CL, and asked me a number of things about it.

mmarshall

BTW, I haven't decided on a Best-in-Show award yet, but, from what I've seen, I think my Worst-in-Show award will probably go the the Nissan Versa. Despite it being slightly larger and roomier inside than most of its entry-level competiton, it is depressingly cheap inside and out, has an interior full of not even bargain-basement-level plastic, wobbly controls/*****, thin cardboard-like door panels, coal-mine black interior with no trim, thin sheet metal, and tin-can door-closings. The 13-14K on the sticker-price Nissan wanted for this particular car would be better-spent, IMO, on a Kia Rio or Hyundai Accent.....though some Accents now start at 15-16K. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Chevy Spark either...but its build solidness seemed better than the Versa's. Nor was I impressed with the Smart-for-Two...but, again, it bettered the Versa in at least some areas.

Toys4RJill

Although Buick has come a long way, and I am sure they are nice cars, I still would not put them in the same breath as a Lexus or a high end Toyota like the Avalon.

While the Verano/Rregal are nice, they both lack velvity smooth V6 options and the interiors are not exactly up to luxury car standards.

IMO, the starting price of both the Verano/Regal and even Lacrosse are too low to be considered luxury.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

nice mmarshall, thanks. was they hybrid avalon quieter in general (obviously when engine is off)m than gas model?

mmarshall

The gas-powered version was pretty quiet itself, even under significant acceleration. Except for the engine-stop mode on the hybrid at traffic-lights/stop-signs, IMO, it's hard, but not impossible, to tell the difference....minor at best.

According to the Toyota reps there, the Avalon uses the same hybrid system as the Camry....but, of course, in a larger, more plush, and more-refined car. The new Avalon, IMO, is easily Lexus-grade in trim and refinement.

I just wish they hadn't screwed up the chassis and firmed-up the ride. The original 1Gen Avalon of the mid-90s, IMO, was a real delight to drive.....but its interior couldn't compare with the present one.

spwolf

thanks for the impressions, difference in price is not that big... hybrid simply does not have the base option... but for other equipment packages is $1750.

mmarshall

Sure...anytime. Glad you liked them.

For those who have money to burn, it may not be a huge difference, but for many others, a difference of 5-6K for a regular-vs.-hybrid Avalon is a good chunk of cash. The Hybrid Avalon I drove had the price-sticker folded up in the glove-box...it listed at over 42K (from a 35-36K base). The difference between that and a base 30-31K Avalon (minus options) would buy a lot of gas for it over the years, even at $4.00 (Amercan price) a gallon.

spwolf

well going by saving money for gas, if you want cheap transportation i would guess brand new Avalon is not what you look at... you can look at new or used Camry for instance and save a lot of gas money.

Same could be said for any car... buying base 46k GS350 will save you a lot more gas money over buying loaded $70k GS350, right?

mmarshall

Well, yes..........if we're going to go into the whole fruit-salad instead of just comparing apples or apples and oranges, that's true. I was just replying to what you said formerly, though, about the differences in the various trim-levels of the Avalon. And, never mind America.....in Britain, for example, you've got a number of other factors as well. Things like the road-use tax, carbon-emission tax, a 19-20% sales tax, a congestion-charge in London, and other charges that don't exist in America.

The TOP GEAR annual car-buying-guide, BTW, is very useful in listing things like which CO and road-use tax category you can expect for each different model and engine/drivetrain. I read it for the first time this year (a local British friend of mine gets it from his daughter), and it is quite impressive.