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Old 03-30-09, 12:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
thanks for the good laugh. you don't know me, but i embrace all kinds of change and progress, but i am skeptical about tesla's claims. plus, even if EVERYTHING is true, economically it STILL doesn't make ANY sense.

also, how can that sedan shown seat 7!?



and you're a "true believer" and kool-aid drinker, believing all the PR that tesla wants to publish. but nice finger pointing and judgment even though you don't know me.

i *do* believe electric cars have a future, although i prefer hydrogen.

by the way, if recharging an electric car is cheap, as it appears to be now, but states end up losing significant tax revenue due to decreased gasoline use, guess what's going to happen... yup, higher taxes/rates for electricity, making the economic aspect of electric vehicles even weaker.

anyway, bottom line, are YOU going to put your money where your keyboard is and buy one of these supposedly $50K tesla S's?

the only reason anyone supports hydrogen is because then gas companies don't go out of business, and they can just change gas stations into hydrogen stations.

makes NO sense economically? really? NO sense at all? in a world were the number of people and the number of people who drive cars is exploading...a world that is about to reach peak oil by 2015...you wanna argue that a car that uses no gasoline makes NO sense at all? WOW is there some medication you need to be taking? cuz seriously, seems to me like you oppose progress. and you can laugh all you want.

And when I will have this car, I will also have solar panels and a vertical axis wind generator on the roof. and an ultra capasitor in the basement for energy storage.

I wont care if the state decides to raise taxes on electricity. I'll have my own.

Must be hard to see the world change around you heh? people who oppose progress don't really oppose it, they just don't feel comfortable with new things. you're one of those people.
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Old 03-30-09, 12:27 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by dunnojack View Post
first round, 15 years ago, didn't work

let's see about this round
It "didn't work" because GM sold their battery patent to Chevron (an oil company who still sits on this patent today) and decided to kill the EV because they were not profitable. It would have worked if they promoted them. Their 60-80 mile range was more than enough for city dwellers and their daily commutes.
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Old 03-30-09, 12:27 AM   #63
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that won't happen in the next 50 years, as the majority of cars will still run on gas or diesel.

transition to electric will take a long long time.
I think it will take faster than you think. we should hit peak oil by 2015. gas prices all over the world will look like they are in europe now: 7-8-9 dollars a gallon.

by the end of next decade they could reach $10.

plus we should have lots of progress in technology. Obama will invest $150 billion over the next 10 years in alternative energy, batteries etc.

I think a decade from now the world will be much different.
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Old 03-30-09, 12:29 AM   #64
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[QUOTE=bitkahuna;4385561]probably with 480V which almost no homes have. great.



here's an idea: GET ONE. the world is changing always, and we have to adjust. if we didn't we would still be living in the stone age. and before you cry about costs, whatever it is, it's cheaper than gas.
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Old 03-30-09, 12:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
also, how can that sedan shown seat 7!?
I figured that one out pretty quick. Looks like you jam three adults into the rear seat and then I assume they will have two seat belts under the hatch for the kiddies. Assuming the battery pack is under the floor of the back and the solar heating from the hatch, the kids should be comatose within ten minutes of driving time.
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Old 03-30-09, 12:48 PM   #66
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[QUOTE=ren495;4386855]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
probably with 480V which almost no homes have. great.



here's an idea: GET ONE. the world is changing always, and we have to adjust. if we didn't we would still be living in the stone age. and before you cry about costs, whatever it is, it's cheaper than gas.
I am more on the side of plug in electrics than against. But you need to turn down the personal reality distortion field a bit. Maybe in WA 480V wired homes are all over the place. Here in Cali it is difficult to even get commercial spaces with 480V below around 15,000 sq ft. You aren't talking about some check the box option for getting 480V in your home. It's up to the local utility as to where they drop the voltage for residential neighborhoods and what they make available. They drop the voltage for their convenience, not ours. And unless there winds up being some huge federal subsidy, I wouldn't call PG&E and ask them for the price to run it to my home.

The electric car community would do well to concentrate on their strengths that people can take advantage of and not get into fabricating charging times based on voltages that the overwhelming majority of consumers will not be able to get access to at home. You want to rig something up to generate 480V at home, fine. Don't assume very many electric vehicle owners are going to be so inclined and when they find out they have to sell their house and find some green field community that is eco friendly to get the voltage to charge their new Tesla in under ten hours, well, it won't help sales IMO.
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Old 03-31-09, 11:40 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren495 View Post
the only reason anyone supports hydrogen is because then gas companies don't go out of business, and they can just change gas stations into hydrogen stations.
ok, and your point is? what do you dislike about hydrogen? abundant, non-polluting (the cars anyway, there's always an upstream effect, with electrics, too, and no, i don't have a month to charge my car with a windmill), delivers good power and range, and fits in with existing infrastructure.

i guess because you seem to have a pathological loathing of all things oil and gas, you're against it?

Quote:
makes NO sense economically? really? NO sense at all?
not for many years it doesn't, as i explained earlier. i don't believe anyone buying a tesla s will ever be ahead of buying a civic or yaris (or prius or insight) instead.

Quote:
in a world were the number of people and the number of people who drive cars is exploading...
actually birth rates are dropping almost everywhere, but yes, the number of cars is skyrocketing in asia most dramatically, due to increasing prosperity (now slowed by the global recession however).

Quote:
a world that is about to reach peak oil by 2015...
rofl, where's Lil4X? this old saw... peak oil has been predicted i think in the 60s, 70s, 90s, and now again... yet world supply of oil RIGHT NOW is MASSIVELY higher than demand, and saudi arabia is still working on almost doubling their supply, and the u.s. has stupidly chosen not to get the vast amounts of oil it has in the gulf of mexico, alaska, and other places.

Quote:
you wanna argue that a car that uses no gasoline makes NO sense at all? WOW is there some medication you need to be taking? cuz seriously, seems to me like you oppose progress. and you can laugh all you want.
you're misunderstanding or deliberately twisting what i've written or what i mean at least. as i've tried to say, in say a 5 year ownership cycle, a car like the tesla is an economic loser compared to an efficient gas car. you can't deny the math.

but that doesn't mean there won't come a time when it may make more sense. in the mean time, true believers like you can pay for the R&D - knock yourself out.

Quote:
And when I will have this car, I will also have solar panels and a vertical axis wind generator on the roof. and an ultra capasitor in the basement for energy storage.
good for you. again none of that is cheap to do (i've looked into it - i have the space and almosdt constant breeze), but again, economically it makes no sense, one has to want to do it, because...

Quote:
Must be hard to see the world change around you heh? people who oppose progress don't really oppose it, they just don't feel comfortable with new things. you're one of those people.
last warning on the personal insults... but i do NOT oppose progress at all, in fact i've been discussing with many luddites around me who refuse to accept how the world has changed with the internet, etc.

what's hard to see about the world changing though, is that it looks like governments and corporations are on a rapid pace to make the world utterly miserable. i expect you're a good bit younger than me and i wouldn't want to be younger, i don't have kids and i'm glad.
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Old 04-01-09, 05:50 PM   #68
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You're right on all counts Bit. The only way this car can save you enough money to justify the purchase over a comparable petrol vehicle is when gas prices reach stratospheric levels. Plug in charging will not be convenient until charge times are comparable to filling up at the station. I've read about current advances in quick-charging lithium ion batteries, so there may be a solution in the near future.

Until that time, I believe that a car like the Volt makes a lot more sense right now. The ability to run on various forms of fuel when a charge is unavailable makes this car a reasonable solution today.

I've stopped by the Tesla dealership a couple times and I've driven the coupe. It's great fun - eerily silent except for road noise and instant torque. I really enjoyed it and wouldn't mind owning one. Sadly, I missed out on a Tesla track day where I could have really tested the car.

From a practical standpoint, you can't argue with Bit's points. But at least we're headed in the right direction, and I think we can all agree that some form of battery power will become standard in all cars in the future.
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Old 01-21-11, 09:46 AM   #69
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Quote:
Model S, engineered from the ground as an EV, is meticulously designed for superior aerodynamics, stability and handling, crash safety, performance and range. Before Model S enters production it will have been thoroughly tested using both computer simulations and test vehicles. Tesla will complete two vehicle testing phases, Alpha and Beta. The Alpha phase began in 2010.

While test driving the first Alpha, Tesla Vehicle Dynamicist Graham Sutherland commented: "The first Alpha is amazingly agile for a car of its size. It has great handling balance and poised ride with communicative steering. Just goes to show what combining a low center of gravity with a very stiff body structure can achieve."

The Alphas will be tested extensively in the coming months in all climates. As each Alpha is built, the driving dynamics will evolve and improve.
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[video=vimeo;18614767]http://vimeo.com/18614767[/video]



http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/alpha-hits-road

For comparison:


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Old 06-04-11, 08:45 PM   #70
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Default New pictures of Tesla Model S Alpha show a sleeker, more refined car

New pictures of Tesla Model S Alpha show a sleeker, more refined car


Tesla Motors has put up some new pictures of the Tesla Model S Alpha, and this gorgeous vehicle is looking more production ready than ever. The changes we can see are subtle, but compared to the prototype, the Model S now sports a different lower fascia. The new look seems slightly more aggressive and angular compared to the prototype's rounded appearance, especially the accents under the headlights. The vents (?) above the front wheel wells also appear to have been made smaller, making the car somehow even more sleek. What changes to you see?

Click the image to open in full size.

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http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/04...model-s-alpha/

____________

And for comparison sake:

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Old 06-04-11, 08:46 PM   #71
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I think I found my favorite new sedan . Nice and aggressive, and I detect some Maserati, Jaguar, and Panamera influences
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Old 06-04-11, 08:53 PM   #72
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that is puurrtttyyyy
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Old 06-04-11, 08:56 PM   #73
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It looks amazing! The 4GS is going to have to be a major looker or a PHEV with some astounding mileage and power to keep me away from this sucker.
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Old 06-04-11, 09:11 PM   #74
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Niceee.look like a jag
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Old 06-04-11, 10:33 PM   #75
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You can definitely see some jag styling cues. Nice looking car.
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Old 06-04-11, 10:33 PM
 
 
 
 
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