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Ford Hybrids Not Achieving EPA MPG Ratings: Report

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Old 11-30-12, 12:28 PM   #1
Vh_Supra26
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Default Ford Hybrids Not Achieving EPA MPG Ratings: Report

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After the recent debacle with Hyundai and Kia over their inaccurate MPG claims, Ford may now be under the spotlight as fuel economy numbers for its new hybrid models donít seem to be living up to expectations.

Media and real-world results of Fordís two newest hybrid models, the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid, have turned in disappointing mpg figures despite their EPA-estimated 47-mpg ratings. Many C-Max Hybrid testers and owners have reported barely achieving 40 mpg in their vehicles, while the Fusion Hybrid is reporting much less, struggling to even hit 40 mpg.

In AutoGuideĎs own first drive of the 2013 Ford Fusion we noted that during a brief drive we achieved a 40 mpg rating. To give that number context, it is better than we achieved in the Camry Hybrid, with an as-tested 39 mpg. However, the claimed mpg rating for the Camry Hybrid is just 40 mpg (a one mpg difference) compared to the seven mpg difference we saw in the Fusion Hybrid.

Though itís still too early to draw any conclusions, these initial reports could point to a larger issue at a time when consumers are focused on real-world fuel economy after the recent news of incorrect claims by Hyundai and Kia.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...gs-report.html
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Old 11-30-12, 12:35 PM   #2
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Are there really any break in periods in modern cars nowadays?
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Old 11-30-12, 01:25 PM   #3
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
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Old 11-30-12, 01:39 PM   #4
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
yes, and pigs fly.....
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Old 11-30-12, 01:45 PM   #5
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Are there really any break in periods in modern cars nowadays?
sure but they are the same for every car.

IMHO - Ford developed their hybrid system to do good on EPA. With turbo's and hybrids you can optimized your ECU to better fit EPA testing. And we see this happening.

It sucks ultimately for the consumers who are buying these cars thinking they will get 7 MPG more than in Camry, or Prius v.

However there is probably nothing like in Hyundai's case. So it is question of principles really.

There have been many reports of this from both media and customers, some of whom already had Prius so they know how to drive them.. and if you got 50 MPG with Prius and expected to get mid-40's in C-Max, you wont be happy if you got mid to high 30's.

So essentially Ford is not doing anything "really wrong" but in the end, their customers might not be happy... I think only solution is for Toyota to do the same with their next generation or for EPA to add more testing procedures to curb this (which wont happen).

But I think if Toyota did the same, it would end up being the same for the consumer (if they both "lie" by 10 mpg). It is what is happening in Europe, there is some crazy stupid high mpg being recorded which cant be ever reached but it is same for every car so you can still compare between cars.
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Old 11-30-12, 01:47 PM   #6
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yes, and pigs fly.....
Ha. The whole break-in process (3000mi to get advertised mpg's) and GPS involvement is apparently all in the instruction manual.
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Old 11-30-12, 01:51 PM   #7
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...hlight=hyundai

Seems to be an epidemic.
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Old 11-30-12, 02:01 PM   #8
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Ha. The whole break-in process (3000mi to get advertised mpg's) and GPS involvement is apparently all in the instruction manual.
which is great for forum talk, unless you actually purchased the car thinking it is true :-).
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Old 11-30-12, 02:59 PM   #9
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
The EPA testing procedure surely does not include the use of GPS (the car's tested on a dyno), so it isn't even a factor when you look at the EPA figures.
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Old 11-30-12, 03:14 PM   #10
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So we bought a C-MAX Hybrid for the wife and here's some real world (though anecdotal) data. In suburban driving she is averaging around 36-37 MPG. In exactly the same type of driving I average ~44 MPG (and trust me the engine always comes on when I leave a light and I don't dwaddle or pull some hypermiling B.S.). I've done way better (I've seen 60 MPG) but realistically I can see getting close to the mileage claims in around town driving. My wife just needs to improve her awareness a bit to coach herself to better driving (BTW: She averaged 14-15 MPG in our GS400) whereas I always averaged 16-17.

OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.

Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.

So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
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Old 11-30-12, 03:29 PM   #11
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So we bought a C-MAX Hybrid for the wife and here's some real world (though anecdotal) data. In suburban driving she is averaging around 36-37 MPG. In exactly the same type of driving I average ~44 MPG (and trust me the engine always comes on when I leave a light and I don't dwaddle or pull some hypermiling B.S.). I've done way better (I've seen 60 MPG) but realistically I can see getting close to the mileage claims in around town driving. My wife just needs to improve her awareness a bit to coach herself to better driving (BTW: She averaged 14-15 MPG in our GS400) whereas I always averaged 16-17.

OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.

Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.

So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
you would have probably ended up feeling a lot better if they said 40-42 MPG like they "should" have and still purchased the vehicle.

Are you counting by trip computer or calculating at the pump?
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Old 11-30-12, 03:34 PM   #12
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which is great for forum talk, unless you actually purchased the car thinking it is true :-).
All I'm saying is the majority of the people don't have over the break-in mileage on their car yet. I have no personal gain in this situation, just find it interesting. Buying fuel sipping cars is not my thing.

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The EPA testing procedure surely does not include the use of GPS (the car's tested on a dyno), so it isn't even a factor when you look at the EPA figures.
But this is where I'm wondering if Ford is trying to buy themselves some wiggle room. I'm figuring EPA didn't test this vehicle, but rather Ford phoned the results in. I'm wondering if they applied "correction" value of some to account for it being on a dyno.

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Your experience is mirroring everyone else that's grumbling about the mpgs, it seems. How many miles are on your car?
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Old 11-30-12, 06:26 PM   #13
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The EPA only tests like 5 cars a year and doesnt do the 47 EPA rating. Its is actually Ford's number based on their own testing that they do to follow EPA
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Old 11-30-12, 07:44 PM   #14
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you would have probably ended up feeling a lot better if they said 40-42 MPG like they "should" have and still purchased the vehicle.

Are you counting by trip computer or calculating at the pump?
You are right but the question is if they aren't gaming the system but running the actual test as the EPA intends it and they get that result they wanted to advertise it. They would have been smarter not to but they did. FWIW.... just this week Jim Farley announced that they are removing specific MPG claims and going to use more "comparison" verbiage in their advertising (Eg. No longer 47 MPG but rather best in class).

These are counted both by trip computer and at the pump (trip computer is about 1/2 - 3/4 MPG optimistic). The two highway jaunts were 150 miles each so we can be pretty accurate about the MPG.

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Your experience is mirroring everyone else that's grumbling about the mpgs, it seems. How many miles are on your car?
Just over 1400 miles. Break-in is 1000 according to Ford. FWIW with a decent tail-wind we barely saw over 40 (41-42?) MPG with a tailwind @ 60 MPH. I just don't see how they can find another 20% improvement in fuel economy break-in or no break-in.

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The EPA only tests like 5 cars a year and doesnt so the 47 EPA rating is actually Ford's number based on their own testing that they do to follow EPA
True. And what will be really telling is they get hit for not running the tests correctly like Hyundai. If they didn't run the tests properly, like Hyundai, then they deserve everything that comes their way.

If they ran the tests correctly and got the results they did then it's more of a "shame on them" for not coming clean that these were unlikely to be hit in real-world conditions (sorry hypermiling type P&G on the expressway isn't real-world in my book). IMO if these results hold true some exec inside of Ford should have a serious career setback due to this.
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Old 11-30-12, 09:01 PM   #15
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Had a feeling Ford's numbers were too good to be true. 47 MPG in the C-Max (Prius V - 44mpg) and 47 in the nearly full size Fusion (50 mpg in small mid size Prius)? Don't see how Ford could beat or close in on Toyota, the king of hybrid tech, so quickly.

With all these inaccurate ratings coming in, it's interesting to note that Toyota is about the only brand that consistently beats the EPA rating. I think if the Prius was a Hyundai or Ford, it would carry at least a 55 mpg rating, possibly as high as 60 (which some folks actually get).

Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.
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Old 11-30-12, 09:01 PM
 
 
 
 
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