Ford Hybrids Not Achieving EPA MPG Ratings: Report
11-30-12, 11:28 AM
#1
Ford Hybrids Not Achieving EPA MPG Ratings: Report
After the recent debacle with Hyundai and Kia over their inaccurate MPG claims, Ford may now be under the spotlight as fuel economy numbers for its new hybrid models don’t seem to be living up to expectations.
Media and real-world results of Ford’s two newest hybrid models, the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid, have turned in disappointing mpg figures despite their EPA-estimated 47-mpg ratings. Many C-Max Hybrid testers and owners have reported barely achieving 40 mpg in their vehicles, while the Fusion Hybrid is reporting much less, struggling to even hit 40 mpg.
In AutoGuide‘s own first drive of the 2013 Ford Fusion we noted that during a brief drive we achieved a 40 mpg rating. To give that number context, it is better than we achieved in the Camry Hybrid, with an as-tested 39 mpg. However, the claimed mpg rating for the Camry Hybrid is just 40 mpg (a one mpg difference) compared to the seven mpg difference we saw in the Fusion Hybrid.
Though it’s still too early to draw any conclusions, these initial reports could point to a larger issue at a time when consumers are focused on real-world fuel economy after the recent news of incorrect claims by Hyundai and Kia.
Media and real-world results of Ford’s two newest hybrid models, the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid, have turned in disappointing mpg figures despite their EPA-estimated 47-mpg ratings. Many C-Max Hybrid testers and owners have reported barely achieving 40 mpg in their vehicles, while the Fusion Hybrid is reporting much less, struggling to even hit 40 mpg.
In AutoGuide‘s own first drive of the 2013 Ford Fusion we noted that during a brief drive we achieved a 40 mpg rating. To give that number context, it is better than we achieved in the Camry Hybrid, with an as-tested 39 mpg. However, the claimed mpg rating for the Camry Hybrid is just 40 mpg (a one mpg difference) compared to the seven mpg difference we saw in the Fusion Hybrid.
Though it’s still too early to draw any conclusions, these initial reports could point to a larger issue at a time when consumers are focused on real-world fuel economy after the recent news of incorrect claims by Hyundai and Kia.
11-30-12, 12:25 PM
#3
Lead Lap
One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
11-30-12, 12:39 PM
#4
One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
11-30-12, 12:45 PM
#5
sure but they are the same for every car.
IMHO - Ford developed their hybrid system to do good on EPA. With turbo's and hybrids you can optimized your ECU to better fit EPA testing. And we see this happening.
It sucks ultimately for the consumers who are buying these cars thinking they will get 7 MPG more than in Camry, or Prius v.
However there is probably nothing like in Hyundai's case. So it is question of principles really.
There have been many reports of this from both media and customers, some of whom already had Prius so they know how to drive them.. and if you got 50 MPG with Prius and expected to get mid-40's in C-Max, you wont be happy if you got mid to high 30's.
So essentially Ford is not doing anything "really wrong" but in the end, their customers might not be happy... I think only solution is for Toyota to do the same with their next generation or for EPA to add more testing procedures to curb this (which wont happen).
But I think if Toyota did the same, it would end up being the same for the consumer (if they both "lie" by 10 mpg). It is what is happening in Europe, there is some crazy stupid high mpg being recorded which cant be ever reached but it is same for every car so you can still compare between cars.
IMHO - Ford developed their hybrid system to do good on EPA. With turbo's and hybrids you can optimized your ECU to better fit EPA testing. And we see this happening.
It sucks ultimately for the consumers who are buying these cars thinking they will get 7 MPG more than in Camry, or Prius v.
However there is probably nothing like in Hyundai's case. So it is question of principles really.
There have been many reports of this from both media and customers, some of whom already had Prius so they know how to drive them.. and if you got 50 MPG with Prius and expected to get mid-40's in C-Max, you wont be happy if you got mid to high 30's.
So essentially Ford is not doing anything "really wrong" but in the end, their customers might not be happy... I think only solution is for Toyota to do the same with their next generation or for EPA to add more testing procedures to curb this (which wont happen).
But I think if Toyota did the same, it would end up being the same for the consumer (if they both "lie" by 10 mpg). It is what is happening in Europe, there is some crazy stupid high mpg being recorded which cant be ever reached but it is same for every car so you can still compare between cars.
11-30-12, 12:47 PM
#6
Lead Lap
11-30-12, 12:51 PM
#7
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
Seems to be an epidemic.
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11-30-12, 01:01 PM
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11-30-12, 01:59 PM
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One note about the Ford hybrids- their performance seems to be significantly greatly by driving in unfamiliar areas. They use their GPS systems to optimize power utilization, so they probably won't meet their MPG targets until they learn details about the routes you take frequently.
11-30-12, 02:14 PM
#10
Pole Position
So we bought a C-MAX Hybrid for the wife and here's some real world (though anecdotal) data. In suburban driving she is averaging around 36-37 MPG. In exactly the same type of driving I average ~44 MPG (and trust me the engine always comes on when I leave a light and I don't dwaddle or pull some hypermiling B.S.). I've done way better (I've seen 60 MPG) but realistically I can see getting close to the mileage claims in around town driving. My wife just needs to improve her awareness a bit to coach herself to better driving (BTW: She averaged 14-15 MPG in our GS400) whereas I always averaged 16-17.
OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.
Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.
So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.
Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.
So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
11-30-12, 02:29 PM
#11
So we bought a C-MAX Hybrid for the wife and here's some real world (though anecdotal) data. In suburban driving she is averaging around 36-37 MPG. In exactly the same type of driving I average ~44 MPG (and trust me the engine always comes on when I leave a light and I don't dwaddle or pull some hypermiling B.S.). I've done way better (I've seen 60 MPG) but realistically I can see getting close to the mileage claims in around town driving. My wife just needs to improve her awareness a bit to coach herself to better driving (BTW: She averaged 14-15 MPG in our GS400) whereas I always averaged 16-17.
OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.
Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.
So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
OTOH.. On the freeway where you can use the "Eco" cruise function we averaged 38 MPG on a recent trip that was basically 70 MPH on cruise or 60 MPH on cruise. The difference in MPG was almost negligible between the two speeds. While on "Eco" cruise @ 60 the battery almost never kicked in and when it did the mileage certainly popped up. It seems like they expect you to P&G (pulse and glide) in which case the beginning of the glide will allow the battery to kick in and stay in @ speeds up to 62 MPH. The engine RPM basically didn't change from 60-70 and thus mileage didn't either.
Now I'm all for the fact that they might have gamed the EPA system (intentionally or not). But it's going to be very, very bad for them to have 47 highway MPG on the thing when there is no way (even with cruise @ 60) to hit those numbers on reasonably flat terrain. If it were rated 42 and you got 38 or 39 you might say, it's me. But when you are 20-30% off well... it isn't me then is it? Especially if I'm already using "Eco" cruise.
So long story short I think this can come close on a suburban driving cycle but as the Prius switchers who do mostly highway miles have shown there is basically no way to hit those numbers on the HWY. For me, I'm annoyed but given the driving cycle we bought it for I'm not as upset as I could be. And a 40 MPG average around town (once my wife learns a modicum of restraint) is >> 14-15 we were getting when she drove the GS that I can't be too upset. Besides it's still nicer inside, quieter and handles so much better than a Prius (in our opinion) that we still would have bought it had the numbers been lower/accurate.
Are you counting by trip computer or calculating at the pump?
11-30-12, 02:34 PM
#12
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All I'm saying is the majority of the people don't have over the break-in mileage on their car yet. I have no personal gain in this situation, just find it interesting. Buying fuel sipping cars is not my thing. Your experience is mirroring everyone else that's grumbling about the mpgs, it seems. How many miles are on your car?
11-30-12, 05:26 PM
#13
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The EPA only tests like 5 cars a year and doesnt do the 47 EPA rating. Its is actually Ford's number based on their own testing that they do to follow EPA
Last edited by RXSF; 11-30-12 at 07:50 PM.
11-30-12, 06:44 PM
#14
Pole Position
These are counted both by trip computer and at the pump (trip computer is about 1/2 - 3/4 MPG optimistic). The two highway jaunts were 150 miles each so we can be pretty accurate about the MPG.
If they ran the tests correctly and got the results they did then it's more of a "shame on them" for not coming clean that these were unlikely to be hit in real-world conditions (sorry hypermiling type P&G on the expressway isn't real-world in my book). IMO if these results hold true some exec inside of Ford should have a serious career setback due to this.
11-30-12, 08:01 PM
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Had a feeling Ford's numbers were too good to be true. 47 MPG in the C-Max (Prius V - 44mpg) and 47 in the nearly full size Fusion (50 mpg in small mid size Prius)? Don't see how Ford could beat or close in on Toyota, the king of hybrid tech, so quickly.
With all these inaccurate ratings coming in, it's interesting to note that Toyota is about the only brand that consistently beats the EPA rating. I think if the Prius was a Hyundai or Ford, it would carry at least a 55 mpg rating, possibly as high as 60 (which some folks actually get).
Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.
With all these inaccurate ratings coming in, it's interesting to note that Toyota is about the only brand that consistently beats the EPA rating. I think if the Prius was a Hyundai or Ford, it would carry at least a 55 mpg rating, possibly as high as 60 (which some folks actually get).
Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.