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Ford Hybrids Not Achieving EPA MPG Ratings: Report

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Old 11-30-12, 08:18 PM   #16
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Old 12-01-12, 12:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.
If you only care about is FE. OTOH... I prefer the interior look, materials, ride quality, acceleration and handling of the C-MAX over the Toyota..

The CT-200H was a close second choice but the Toyota's didn't even rate. YMMV
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Old 12-01-12, 02:01 AM   #18
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Had a feeling Ford's numbers were too good to be true. 47 MPG in the C-Max (Prius V - 44mpg) and 47 in the nearly full size Fusion (50 mpg in small mid size Prius)? Don't see how Ford could beat or close in on Toyota, the king of hybrid tech, so quickly.

With all these inaccurate ratings coming in, it's interesting to note that Toyota is about the only brand that consistently beats the EPA rating. I think if the Prius was a Hyundai or Ford, it would carry at least a 55 mpg rating, possibly as high as 60 (which some folks actually get).

Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.
there are ways to game EPA especially with electric motors where you can make your car use electric power in parts of the test thats beneficial to EPA but not in real life. For instance, Ford hybrids can travel in electric at higher speeds which is awesome for EPA but in real life, very inefficient as we can see by the real highway mpg.

Currently on fuelly, around -4 MPG real life difference between C-MAX and Prius v, while it should be +5, so the difference in real life vs EPA is 9 MPG.. Plus, Prius v is one class bigger car too... compared to Prius liftback which is same size, difference in fuelly score is 11.4 MPG :-).
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Old 12-10-12, 10:29 AM   #19
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Default Consumer Reports calls out Ford for false Fusion, C-Max hybrid fuel economy claims

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Consumer Reports is calling out Ford, saying the new C-Max and Fusion hybrids don't get anywhere near the 47 miles per gallon the automaker claims.

Several automakers have faced backlash after consumers discovered their cars don't quite hit the lofty fuel economy figures promised by the companies, and Ford may be the newest casualty of all this pesky fact-checking by critics and watchdogs.

The magazine drove the cars 2,000 miles and consistently got around 39 mpg for the Fusion and 37 mpg for the C-Max. Jake Fisher, director of auto testing for Consumer Reports, said this is the largest discrepancy between what automakers MPG claims and the actual real-world driving results.

"It's not to say these are bad cars at all; they still get excellent fuel economy," Fisher said. "But we've been doing this for a long time, and we've never seen such a difference between the EPA estimates and our numbers."

Ford said its figures were certified by the EPA, but the EPA only tests about 10 to 15 percent of the cars on the road. Ford said some early reports from customers showed the cars getting even better fuel economy than 47 mpg.

"This reinforces the fact that driving styles, driving conditions, and other factors can cause mileage to vary," said Wes Sherwood, a spokesman for Ford. For customers who want to optimize their fuel economy, the cars come with different driving coach software to help drivers get better fuel economy, he said.

Scroll down to watch the video report from Consumer Reports.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/06/c...usion-c-max-h/
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Old 12-10-12, 10:31 AM   #20
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Default EPA to investigate Ford C-Max, Fusion fuel economy

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The Environmental Protection Agency has said it "will look at the report and data" from Consumer Reports indicating that the 2013 Ford C-Max and Fusion hybrids don't come close to achieving their fuel economy estimates of 47 miles per gallon. In CR testing, the C-Max Hybrid averaged 37 mpg; the Fusion Hybrid averaged 39.

CR reports that the 10-mpg difference recorded with the C-Max represents "the largest discrepancy between our overall-mpg results and the estimates published by the EPA that we've seen among any current models." For reference, the Toyota Prius came up six mpg short of EPA estimates under CR's testing.

So, what happens if the EPA finds a discrepancy in Ford's mileage claims? According to The Detroit News, automakers may face civil penalties over misstated claims. Just a few weeks back, Hyundai and Kia were found to have overstated mileage estimates for 1.1 million vehicles sold in the US and Canada, prompting the automaker to compensate owners for their now-reduced mileage figures. Lawsuits, reductions in consumer confidence and even inquiries from politicians are also potential problems in the pipeline.

It's too early to suggest such drastic measures will be taken by Ford, especially since "a hybrid vehicle is going to be far more variable than a conventional vehicle" when it comes to observed fuel mileage, according to Linc Wehrly, director of light-duty vehicle center compliance division at the EPA's Ann Arbor laboratory.

Ford, for its part, issued the following statement to Consumer Reports: "Early C-Max Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid customers praise the vehicles and report a range of fuel economy figures, including some reports above 47 mpg. This reinforces the fact that driving styles, driving conditions and other factors can cause mileage to vary."
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/10/e...-fuel-economy/
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Old 12-10-12, 10:46 AM   #21
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I just reviewed a new C-Max a couple of days ago. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...ord-c-max.html They mentioned, at the Ford-shop I was at (even though I didn't specifically ask for it) that some of the new Ford hybrids weren't getting the claimed MPG. That, to me, shows the mark of honest people....something that is too often lacking in the car buisness.
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Old 12-10-12, 11:17 AM   #22
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But I think if Toyota did the same, it would end up being the same for the consumer (if they both "lie" by 10 mpg).
If Toyota did it all hell would break loose in the media!!!!

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The magazine drove the cars 2,000 miles and consistently got around 39 mpg for the Fusion and 37 mpg for the C-Max.
37mpg for the C-Max is completely unacceptable IMO.
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Old 12-10-12, 11:36 AM   #23
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One of my employees has the previous-generation Fusion (a 2011), and says he typically averages 44. He's currently at 42.4 after his wife took it for a tank and got 38.
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Old 12-10-12, 01:51 PM   #24
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10 MPG less???? So basically all these MPG claims from anyone outside Toyota in regards to hybrids is garbage?

That is ridiculous. And I see crickets.
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Old 12-10-12, 05:15 PM   #25
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Just a half-educated guess, but one thing that could (?) be cutting down on the C-Max's claimed highway mileage is its higher, boxier shape compared to the Ford Fusion and most Prius hybrids. The various Prius models, in general, have more wedge-shaped front ends for aerodynamics and less wind-resistance, where the C-Max not only is taller but also has that big, blunt, Aston-Martin-type grille. Some of the EPA testing does not always catch all the effects of changing variables.
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Old 12-10-12, 07:58 PM   #26
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Just a half-educated guess, but one thing that could (?) be cutting down on the C-Max's claimed highway mileage is its higher, boxier shape compared to the Ford Fusion and most Prius hybrids. The various Prius models, in general, have more wedge-shaped front ends for aerodynamics and less wind-resistance, where the C-Max not only is taller but also has that big, blunt, Aston-Martin-type grille. Some of the EPA testing does not always catch all the effects of changing variables.
My half-educated guess is that the gasoline engine is too small and underpowered. When running on the engine, it will have to work harder and therefore use more fuel because it is not powerful enough for the North American real-world conditions.

Toyota switched to a 1.8-litre gasoline engine for the 3rd-generation Prius, from the 1.5-litre gasoline engine in the first 2 generations, and with the extra torque and power available, the larger engine does not have to work as hard and so the 3rd-generation Prius gets better fuel economy than the 2nd-generation model.
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Old 12-10-12, 07:59 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Just a half-educated guess, but one thing that could (?) be cutting down on the C-Max's claimed highway mileage is its higher, boxier shape compared to the Ford Fusion and most Prius hybrids. The various Prius models, in general, have more wedge-shaped front ends for aerodynamics and less wind-resistance, where the C-Max not only is taller but also has that big, blunt, Aston-Martin-type grille. Some of the EPA testing does not always catch all the effects of changing variables.
That's been taken care of by post-testing adjustments according to the vehicle's drag coefficient. Otherwise all SUVs would have had hugely inaccurate fuel economy ratings, not just hybrids.
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Old 02-28-13, 10:39 PM   #28
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http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/28...l-cleanmpg-ec/

Ford C-Max Hybrid falls well short in careful CleanMPG economy test, beat by Toyota Prius V

The grain of salt one should take this post with is that Wayne Gerdes is just one man, and that his personal test results may not be applicable to everyone. Still, Gerdes is well-known in the green car community – his Guinness World Record for lowest fuel consumption in a hybrid and his position as owner of CleanMPG are just two good reasons – so when he and his crew tested a Ford C-Max Hybrid, the results are worth paying attention to. Turns out, they couldn't get anywhere near the EPA's claimed efficiency numbers.

Already the subject of a class action lawsuit over fuel economy claims, the C-Max Hybrid officially gets 47 miles per gallon across all three of the EPA's test categories (city/highway/combined). Plenty of people have questioned whether 47 mpg is an accurate real-world number, and Gerdes' discovered that the C-Max Hybrid doesn't always reach the lofty EPA levels.

During a recent test in the sunny southwest, Gerdes and crew discovered the C-Max only managed 35.537 mpg over 360 highway miles but did get 52 mpg over 22.8 miles in the city. The drive was a comparison test with the Toyota Prius V, which is rated at 44 mpg city, 40 highway and 42 combined, and the V handily beat the C-Max, despite its lower EPA numbers.

Along the same route, the Prius V got 40.768 mpg on the highway and 55.8 mpg in the city. Gerdes wrote, "While the C-Max did beat its EPA city result, it fell woefully short of besting the lower fuel economy-rated Prius V revealing that the C-Max fuel economy claims beyond that of the Prius V are not what we were meant to believe." Motor Trend also found the Prius V beats the C-Max.


Gerdes is incredibly careful to take notes and pictures to document his tests (as we learned in person a few years ago), so we trust his results with the C-Max. Gerdes explained to AutoblogGreen that:
Given we are coming up on Spring training, here is a baseball analogy. With a neatly appointed interior and fastball-like performance, there is a lot to like about the all-new 2013 Ford C-Max. From a cargo carrying standpoint however, the design team took a swing and missed when compared to the Prius liftback and Prius V in particular.

In addition, it appears Ford's engineers and marketing team are in the unenviable position of simply being too far out ahead of a the curve when compared to anything in the entire Prius family lineup. The Fuel Economy curve, that is. Hopefully the Ford team will keep their eyes on the ball so that the next iteration will supply owner satisfaction from the standpoint of the C-Max's strengths while also providing a lot less pain at the pump. Right now, they appear to be getting called "out" by all the umpires well before reaching home.

When it was launched late last year, the C-Max Hybrid started with incredibly strong sales, and some drivers are certainly able to get 45+ mpg. Still, the automaker and the EPA are in discussion about potentially changing test procedures for hybrid vehicles and the lawsuits continue. You can read all of the details of the CleanMPG C-Max Hybrid MPG test here.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by -J-P-L- View Post
Had a feeling Ford's numbers were too good to be true. 47 MPG in the C-Max (Prius V - 44mpg) and 47 in the nearly full size Fusion (50 mpg in small mid size Prius)? Don't see how Ford could beat or close in on Toyota, the king of hybrid tech, so quickly.

With all these inaccurate ratings coming in, it's interesting to note that Toyota is about the only brand that consistently beats the EPA rating. I think if the Prius was a Hyundai or Ford, it would carry at least a 55 mpg rating, possibly as high as 60 (which some folks actually get).

Today's lesson? It's just another reason to buy Toyota.
I completely agree. This is just another drop in the bucket for Toyota respectability vs. "the others." I'll predict, the media will make very little of this, while they made a huge mess of the fake Toyota/Lexus acceleration (floor mats) debacle. You always get picked on when you are on top.
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Old 03-01-13, 05:11 PM   #30
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the EPA tests are under ideal conditions. Many people, including myself, get lower mpg numbers than the EPA but I accept it for what it is because of where I live. I should be getting 29 combined when I only get 26ish.

Also, gas counterparts usually dont hit EPA either because of all the traffic/lights in the city. I get around 14mpg when my other car is rated at 18 city
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Old 03-01-13, 05:11 PM
 
 
 
 
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