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Is Lithium in future??

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Old 11-20-12, 04:47 AM
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currybob
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Default Is Lithium in future??

Has anyone heard if Lexus may be changing over to the Lithium type batteries in the future production cars??

Read articles on the benefits with the Lithium batteries and seems like it would be wise to move that direction sooner rather than later.

Bob
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Old 11-20-12, 08:34 AM
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There's been talk, in that future Prius thread, but not till around 2017-2020
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Old 11-20-12, 09:06 AM
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bagwell
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I believe Lexus (Toyota) is probably ready for Li-ion, they're just being extra cautious and rightly so.

altho the Prius plug-in does already use it....
A newly developed 4.4 kWh lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery pack replaces the standard Prius model’s nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery and fits under the rear cargo floor, and the vehicle adds an easy-to-use external charging cable.

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Old 11-20-12, 09:17 AM
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I posted an article in the LF-LC thread where it states that Lexus is looking at Lithium batteries for the LF-LC.
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Old 11-20-12, 09:25 AM
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Default Two Coupe Lexus Plan Could Mark Brand’s Lithium-Ion Revolution




Compared to its German rivals the Lexus product portfolio doesn’t have much depth and lacks any vehicles with true sex appeal, though that’s about to change says marketing boss Brian Bolain.

When asked about the timing of the close rollout of two coupe concepts, the LF-CC and LF-LC, Bolain responded that the focus on two-doors is, “very intentional,” admitting that right now the company sees its absence in those segments as, “our biggest deficiency.”

While Bolain extolls the virtues of the Lexus brand, ranging from everything to quality and reliability, to customer service and luxuriously appointed interiors, he admits that two areas Lexus is currently lacking in are design and performance. “How do you quickly add an emotional element to a brand,” he asks? “With coupes.”

Commenting that since the SC was retired in 2010, apart from the lofty and limited LFA, Lexus has no coupe in its lineup. “We definitely have a void there today,” he says, commenting that without such a car (or cars) it’s “hard to be taken seriously from a performance perspective.”

Pointing towards the future, Bolain highlights the LF-CC and the LF-LC Concepts, the former a strong indication of the next-generation IS, as well as new coupe model that could wear the RC badge. As for the latter, if approved for production (which it’s all but certain to), it would sit at the upper scale of the Lexus brand, as a serious luxury and performance machine. In fact, Lexus recently announced it would be powered by a “next-generation” hybrid drivetrain capable of producing 500 hp.

How Lexus plans to achieve that output remains a mystery though the next-gen hybrid system could be one that finally makes the switch to more advanced lithium-ion technology, which produces more power from a smaller and lighter package. Bolain confirmed that the LF-LC isn’t yet confirmed for production, though the, “outcry has been tremendous.” Bolain also says that while Lexus has, “no timeline for the introduction of lithium ion,” the brand hopes to have it confirmed for when (and if) the LF-LC coupe makes it into production.

Two-door planning at Lexus does, however, stop with these two cars says Bolain. When asked if the Toyota luxury brand might consider an additional model, perhaps to compete with cars like the Mercedes SLK or BMW Z4, he commented that Lexus has no plans to, “flood the market with coupes.” If the LF-CC and LF-LC both make it to production, he says, “we’ve got good coverage.”
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...evolution.html
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Old 11-20-12, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by currybob
Has anyone heard if Lexus may be changing over to the Lithium type batteries in the future production cars??

Read articles on the benefits with the Lithium batteries and seems like it would be wise to move that direction sooner rather than later.

Bob
What benefits are you refering to, specifically? Current LiON technology has some drawback in commercial applications that make it significantly more expensive than NiMH. To name a few:

- Safety:
LiON is more prone to overheating and rupturing when overcharged, operated in higher temperature or when current draw is higher. Scenario that are more than likely in automotive usage. The safety mechanisms, circuitery and logic needed to compensate is not only costly, but negates any size and weight advantage.

- Power Retention:
LiON batteries lose up to 20% of their capacity as soon as charging stops. Newer technology batteries have somewhat improved this situation, but a loss of overall capacity (~20%). See what they did there? So you essentially need a 25% bigger battery for the same capacity as a NiMH.

- Memory effect:
LiON batteries suffer a different type of memory effect than what the old NiCD used to suffer. As the battery goes through multiple charge cycles, it develop an affinity to a particular power band, where the battery will only provide current within that power band until it needs to be recharged. Over time, that power band narrows to the point where one ends up with an unusuable battery.

Most people experience this already with their laptop and smart phone batteries. Remember the Dell and Sony battery fire issues? Anyone has a smartphone older than 2 years, that can get long battery life out of it? Again, the technology is improving by leaps and bounds and there will be a time when LiON will be the de-facto battery technology to go to. But for now, NiMH is more economical and reliable.
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Old 11-20-12, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by currybob
Has anyone heard if Lexus may be changing over to the Lithium type batteries in the future production cars??

Read articles on the benefits with the Lithium batteries and seems like it would be wise to move that direction sooner rather than later.

Bob
generally, improvements are not that big and reliability is unknown right now.

But Toyota will be making an switch to lithium, once they find right chemistry... It is expected that lithium will be significantly cheaper than nimh soon, because nimh uses a lot of rare metals from China, while Lithium will be mined in Toyota-owned mines (partially) in Canada and Argentina.

Toyota has purchased stake in lithium mining fields in Canada and Argentina, which supply more Lithium than entire Japan uses right now, so that should be telling enough.
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