blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Finally! Wish they just do Turbo everything, especially in Lexus lineup!

spwolf

yeah, i read it too few minutes afterwards... I dont remember Nissan before Toyota because at that time it wasnt sold in Europe.

In any case, D4S is most advanced, with two injectors (port and direct) and solves a problem that DI has with carbon build up.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

My thoughts exactly, just take what they have today and turbo everything to add 100 hp to everything..............then Toyota/Lexus will be back to the king of the world

TRDFantasy

Great news for the most part, although I'm not happy about hearing CVTs will be coming to the smaller and midsize models. I'm not fan of CVTs. I know their purpose in hybrids, but for regular gasoline cars I feel they shouldn't be used.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so if toyota makes regular and turbo combustion engines very very efficient, what happens to hybrids? i could see them going away (although probably replaced with emphasis on pure electrics?).

spwolf

hybrids will never go away, only future for every car is hybrid, for all manufacturers in the world.

Toyota is doing 1 turbo car in 2014 and 21 new hybrids by 2015, and somehow hybrids are going away? :-).

Any vehicle gets 30% better gas consumption due to hybrid system. It is simply recovering wasted energy and using it again.

So what you will see in the future is hybrids in everything... with lowered costs of production for hybrid components, one day you could have GS450h with 2.0l Turbo hybrid and 400hp that gets 40 MPG.

But there is no magic wand, so far these small turbo's are not brining up the gains needed. If you check that MT comparo, Fusion 1.6l has best MPG on paper and worst in the test.

Fusion 1.6l Ecoboost is both slower and more wasteful than Honda Accord 2.4l engine.

TF109B

Toyota is hybrid, they won't abandon that. PLUS, better battery tech is just around the corner. Turbo's and DI won't replace a hybrid. The article starts off with some typical anti-Toyota banter like their engines are being left behind. Even without DI and turbos, their engines are still at or near the top in fuel efficiency.

ydooby

Sounds great and all, but what happened to Valvematic? I always thought it's the one trump card Toyota has, but now with only DI and turbo in the game plan it makes Toyota look like a follower.

ydooby

I've read reports about Toyota's publications on using turbos in hybrids to further enhance thermal efficiency, so any advancement they've made in the turbos can theoretically be applied to hybrids as well, although whether cost will be a major issue remains to be seen.

TRDFantasy

Yes hybrids will be around no matter what. if Toyota makes regular gasoline engines very efficient, that will only make their hybrids even more efficient than they currently are.

Also spywolf brings up a good point about turbos. On paper they are getting good government fuel economy ratings, but in the real world all these new turbo engines for the most part are suffering in terms of fuel economy.

Toyota has been taking their time developing their new engines, so I really hope them using turbos and DI does bring an economy benefit.

Also with regards to Valvematic, Toyota hasn't discussed details about it's upcoming engines. I am hoping Valvematic is included in that. Valvematic is the future of valve timing as it offers greater performance, economy, and reliability compared to regular oil-controlled valve timing.

xsh0tya

I am probably wrong about this, but I was under the impression that reliability was a concern with turbos. This was why Toyota didn't feel the need to win at it.<<(I really like this smile for some reason )

spwolf

Valvematic is the reason Toyota says 1.6l DI doesnt pay off... who are they following exactly with DI, when they used it long before Europeans? Besides, Europeans are only now starting to use D4S tech.

xsh0tya

The whole "follower" thing I think is more for enthusiasts than the common consumer. I want to give the example of self parking cars, I believe it was the LS that did that first, but now ford does it. Most folks don't care who did it first, just that their new car does it too.
I'm not trying to take anything away from the respective company who pioneered the break through, but I'm not sure who first put CDs for example, but think it kinda standard now.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

is valvematic anything like bmw's valvetronic!?

GS69

Toyota Lays Out Future PowerTrain Plans in Catch-Up Bid

After trailing many of its competitors in the recent engine- and transmission-technology wars, Toyota Motor Corp. will launch a swath of powertrains in the next several years, a top powertrain r&d executive said.

Koei Saga, senior managing officer in charge of drivetrain r&d, said that Toyota is investing heavily in turbocharged engines, larger displacement Atkinson cycle engines, continuously variable and fixed-gear automatic transmissions, and new hybrid and fuel cell technologies.

Here's an update on Toyota's efforts:

Turbocharging: German automakers and Ford Motor Co. have made inroads using turbochargers to boost power while keeping engine displacements smaller and more efficient.

And while Toyota is joining the fight -- Lexus recently trademarked "NX 2.0T" for a 2-liter turbo version of its upcoming Lexus compact crossover -- Saga is not convinced that Toyota will emphasize turbocharging across many product lines.

Saga believes that "upsizing" the displacement of engines, and running them on the more efficient Atkinson cycle of fuel combustion -- used in Toyota's hybrid system -- may deliver better power gains without sacrificing fuel economy.

While a larger displacement Atkinson cycle engine may offer less top-end horsepower than a traditional Otto internal combustion engine, its increased thermal efficiency allows for strong acceleration and better fuel economy, Saga said.

Saga declined to provide a horsepower target for the upcoming Toyota turbo engine. While Saga appreciates the performance boost of turbos, he said he was not convinced that turbocharging is technology that "makes the world better."

Many buyers of turbo-engine cars do so for the performance boost, not the possibility of better fuel economy.

In the interim, Toyota also is examining using water/steam injection to make its turbocharging fuel combustion more efficient, but "we will need giant computers to compile the microprocessors" to calculate the best fuel-air ratio for a water-injected turbo, Saga said.

Transmissions: Toyota has followed Honda Motor Co. in using continuously variable transmissions for a key volume nameplate, the Corolla.

Toyota plans to expand CVT use, but only where it makes sense, Saga said.

He described further development of CVTs as "crucial and important" to Toyota.

"The Corolla CVT has great acceleration. Drivers are thinking they are in a car with a great automatic transmission," Saga said in an interview with journalists here, after a Toyota global briefing about future platforms and design.

While the CVT could work with the Camry -- rivaling the Honda Accord's 2013 CVT -- Saga believes there are limits to the technology and Americans' desire for it.

The next Camry, slated to arrive in the 2017 model year, will have "a next-generation A/T, probably not a CVT," Saga said.

Any larger vehicle, such as the Highlander crossover, would have too much power and weight demand for a CVT to handle. But smaller cars such as the next-generation Yaris could warrant a CVT, Saga said.

Hybrid batteries: Although many automakers are using lithium ion batteries in their hybrids, Toyota has stuck with an older-tech, nickel-metal hydride formulation while working on the liquid electrolyte levels of the lithium ion.

Saga said the next Prius may offer a combination of the batteries.

"A lithium ion battery can deliver the same energy in a 30 percent smaller package, but the life span and durability is outstanding for the nickel battery," Saga said.

Making the lithium ion battery larger to increase its long-term durability likely will encroach into occupant and cargo space.

However, for the Prius Plug-in, a lithium ion battery "is a must," he said.

Fuel cells: By the time Toyota's debut hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle goes from this year's early prototypes to serial production in early 2015, the company expects to cut the cost of producing the power plant in half, to about $51,000, and to halve it again by 2020.

That cost reduction will allow Toyota to start selling the vehicle for between $50,000 and $100,000, said Satoshi Ogiso, managing officer of Toyota Motor Corp. overseeing alternative vehicles, powertrains and chassis development.

By 2020, the cost of a fuel cell vehicle "will be closer to that of a plug-in hybrid vehicle, and cheaper than an electric vehicle," Ogiso said at a press briefing here, where journalists drove mules of the fuel-cell powerplant.

In 2007, when Toyota built about 100 units of the Highlander fuel cell demonstrator vehicle, the fuel cell system cost nearly $1 million per unit.

The upcoming Toyota fuel cell sedan — to be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show in November, and which goes on sale in 2015 — is projected to have total global sales of between 5,000 and 10,000 units. Those volume efficiencies should help reduce the cost of the fuel cell pack to just 5 percent of what it was less than a decade ago, Ogiso said.

Toyota plans to launch its fuel cell vehicle in 2015, with the possibility of a 2014 launch in some markets.

"We can see our goal," in terms of hitting cost targets, although cost parity with traditional hybrids may take some time, Saga said. "We're taking out the engine and transmission and replacing it with a fuel cell and a small motor. I don't see it as too expensive to sell."

He said the original Prius was challenged by the same naysayers about cost accounting, and the Prius in now a profitable car. But the infrastructure hurdles of hydrogen refueling will keep mass acceptance low compared with gasoline-hybrid cars, Saga said.

Electric vehicles: Saga is not a big proponent of electric vehicles. He said Toyota -- or any large-scale automaker for that matter -- would not have developed the RAV4 EV if it weren't forced to comply with California Air Resources Board regulations.

And while Saga admires the performance of the Tesla Model S, he doubts if the business plan can grow "when sales are based on targeting rich users for whom this is their 3rd or 4th car."