House Republicans urge White House to delay 2017-2025 fuel economy standards
08-26-12, 03:57 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
wonderful to see posts realizing the idiocy of distorting markets through government fiat.
this will be great for the so-called 1% who will continue to drive whatever they want. meanwhile, the bottom 10% will have to drive 20 year old vehicles because they'll have no chance to afford a 'compliant' new (or even recently used) vehicle.
oh wait, then the govt will do another brilliant "cash for clunkers" program which caused a huge drop in sales after it was over, caused a dearth of used cars (raising prices of other used cars), and no doubt caused some people to buy cars they couldn't actually afford, changing other purchase (or debt-repayment) decisions...
your taxpayer dollars at work.
this will be great for the so-called 1% who will continue to drive whatever they want. meanwhile, the bottom 10% will have to drive 20 year old vehicles because they'll have no chance to afford a 'compliant' new (or even recently used) vehicle.
oh wait, then the govt will do another brilliant "cash for clunkers" program which caused a huge drop in sales after it was over, caused a dearth of used cars (raising prices of other used cars), and no doubt caused some people to buy cars they couldn't actually afford, changing other purchase (or debt-repayment) decisions...
your taxpayer dollars at work.
08-26-12, 08:12 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
have no chance to afford a 'compliant' new (or even recently used) vehicle.
oh wait, then the govt will do another brilliant "cash for clunkers" program which caused a huge drop in sales after it was over, caused a dearth of used cars (raising prices of other used cars), and no doubt caused some people to buy cars they couldn't actually afford, changing other purchase (or debt-repayment) decisions...
oh wait, then the govt will do another brilliant "cash for clunkers" program which caused a huge drop in sales after it was over, caused a dearth of used cars (raising prices of other used cars), and no doubt caused some people to buy cars they couldn't actually afford, changing other purchase (or debt-repayment) decisions...
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-26-12 at 08:25 PM.
08-26-12, 08:35 PM
#64
Moderator
08-26-12, 09:43 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
08-26-12, 09:44 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i couldn't possibly trade in my suv for a miata if that's what you mean.
08-26-12, 09:49 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Exactly, the 2025 LS190 that will have to be based on a Toyota Corolla platform. You can't love V8's and high hp cars and then also welcome 52.5mpg avg because one has to go. If these overbearing fuel economy standards of 46mpg or fleet averages of 52.5 mpg have to implemented by 2025 you can say goodbye to V12s, V10s, V8s, most V6s, turbo or supercharged V6s making over 300hp, hybrid V6's making over 300hp, large cars, large SUV(might not be a bad thing), sports cars, pretty much rwd/awd, full sized pickups(they will most likely get exceptions since they are big sellers for the big 3), etc. You will have to be rich to buy a rare luxury or sports car making any kind of power with 52.5 mpg avg by 2025 and it will most likely have to be a hybrid V6 or at most hybrid V8. 2025 is not that far away in the grand scheme of things especially when it comes to car cycles and what needs to be done.
Hitting 35mpg or close to it is difficult but doable but look what has been done, big increase in hybrids, big increase in small, small engined low powered economy cars, no more NA inline 6s in BMW lineup, 4 cylinder turbos making big comeback in German luxury cars, No V8s in A6 , no V8 for GS(probably has more to due with lack of sales), losing V6 option for many mid size family cars like Impala, Malibu, Sonata, etc. M3 dropping V8 for turbo I6, M5/M6 dropping V10 for turbo V8, S4 dropping V8 for SC V6, 6 cylinder and hybrid 7 series, no increase in power for new ES350, Avalon, GS, etc. Not all these changes have been bad but many are very big just to get to or try to get to a 35mpg average.
For 46-52 mpg future regulations changes are going to have to be huge and will be very disappointing to luxury and sports car enthusiasts. Nothing on the market really meets this 52.5 fleet average, even a low powered small Prius. Get used to most new cars being very small, heavy, and under powered and anything luxury to be very rare, very heavy, very expensive, and very complicated. In order to get to these levels they are going to have to go with electrics or electrics with small back up motors like the Volt which clearly people don't want and are not buying. Diesel engines may not even be clean enough for these future strict standards.
With so many hybrids and electrics being produced and bought to meet these standards it will just create its own set of major problems like higher costs of resources to build these powerplants, quickly using up the resources to build these powerplants, taxing our already heavily used electrical grids to recharge these electrics/hybrids every day, more pollution from more coal fired plants, etc.
There is no realistic way for most automakers to conform to these standards in such a little amount of time and it is good that Republicans in Congress see this and are trying to address it. Totally changing the way they build cars in such a short amount of time can and will hurt and even bankrupt many auto companies and the consumers will lose unless all they want is small expensive underpowered electrics and hybrids that get good gas mileage.
Hitting 35mpg or close to it is difficult but doable but look what has been done, big increase in hybrids, big increase in small, small engined low powered economy cars, no more NA inline 6s in BMW lineup, 4 cylinder turbos making big comeback in German luxury cars, No V8s in A6 , no V8 for GS(probably has more to due with lack of sales), losing V6 option for many mid size family cars like Impala, Malibu, Sonata, etc. M3 dropping V8 for turbo I6, M5/M6 dropping V10 for turbo V8, S4 dropping V8 for SC V6, 6 cylinder and hybrid 7 series, no increase in power for new ES350, Avalon, GS, etc. Not all these changes have been bad but many are very big just to get to or try to get to a 35mpg average.
For 46-52 mpg future regulations changes are going to have to be huge and will be very disappointing to luxury and sports car enthusiasts. Nothing on the market really meets this 52.5 fleet average, even a low powered small Prius. Get used to most new cars being very small, heavy, and under powered and anything luxury to be very rare, very heavy, very expensive, and very complicated. In order to get to these levels they are going to have to go with electrics or electrics with small back up motors like the Volt which clearly people don't want and are not buying. Diesel engines may not even be clean enough for these future strict standards.
With so many hybrids and electrics being produced and bought to meet these standards it will just create its own set of major problems like higher costs of resources to build these powerplants, quickly using up the resources to build these powerplants, taxing our already heavily used electrical grids to recharge these electrics/hybrids every day, more pollution from more coal fired plants, etc.
There is no realistic way for most automakers to conform to these standards in such a little amount of time and it is good that Republicans in Congress see this and are trying to address it. Totally changing the way they build cars in such a short amount of time can and will hurt and even bankrupt many auto companies and the consumers will lose unless all they want is small expensive underpowered electrics and hybrids that get good gas mileage.
It's sad so many here are not even attempting to see the other side
Of the story or not tryin to meet half way. Nope the same childish "omg my side is right" yadda yadda.
Then it's funny to read the responses in the $10 has thread which really oppose what's posted in here.
Hilarious.
Again I'm not saying its the greatest proposal in the world but I think it's influential in a good way even if I don't agree with most of Washington today.
08-27-12, 08:39 AM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Well, in my typical MM-style, I was being partly-facetious for a little humor, but, in fact, it just might work if your SUV gets a lot worse mileage than a new Miata. In fact, that was one of the original requirements of the 2009 Cash-for-Clunkers program...the new vehicle had to have (on a sliding scale) better mileage than the one being traded. The greater the mileage-difference, the more Federal-rebate you got back. The only real problem with that system, though, is that the vehicle being traded was essentially scrapped...it couldn't be re-sold, even if it still had useful life left on it....which would be a waste for a fairly new vehicle.
08-27-12, 08:55 AM
#69
Lexus Champion
This was so funny to read I needed it after this flight
It's sad so many here are not even attempting to see the other side
Of the story or not tryin to meet half way. Nope the same childish "omg my side is right" yadda yadda.
Then it's funny to read the responses in the $10 has thread which really oppose what's posted in here.
Hilarious.
It's sad so many here are not even attempting to see the other side
Of the story or not tryin to meet half way. Nope the same childish "omg my side is right" yadda yadda.
Then it's funny to read the responses in the $10 has thread which really oppose what's posted in here.
Hilarious.
I tried to go buy a used Volt for $26.9K (used 8000 miles)....it was long gone tho.
08-27-12, 09:55 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
There is no realistic way for most automakers to conform to these standards in such a little amount of time and it is good that Republicans in Congress see this and are trying to address it. Totally changing the way they build cars in such a short amount of time can and will hurt and even bankrupt many auto companies and the consumers will lose unless all they want is small expensive underpowered electrics and hybrids that get good gas mileage.
it's as if the govt told apple, etc. you MUST make a phone that's 1oz, does 4G, costs $30, has a 20" screen, and fits in one's pocket. or else face giant fines.
08-27-12, 03:30 PM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
The irony Its simply people that want to argue against anything this administration does or their side doesn't propose. B/C if gas hit $10 a gallon tomorrow these people would say "got damnit why didn't the government tell these fools we need more efficient cars, they knew this was coming"
08-28-12, 05:49 AM
#72
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Right so the guys supporting the opposition to this bill are there in the $10 bill thread *****ing about life at $10 a gallon. The irony Its simply people that want to argue against anything this administration does or their side doesn't propose.
B/C if gas hit $10 a gallon tomorrow these people would say "got damnit why didn't the government tell these fools we need more efficient cars, they knew this was coming"
The irony Its simply people that want to argue against anything this administration does or their side doesn't propose. B/C if gas hit $10 a gallon tomorrow these people would say "got damnit why didn't the government tell these fools we need more efficient cars, they knew this was coming"
Rather than having the government dictate what manufacturers build, why don't we allow the free market to work and have people decide that on their own.
08-28-12, 06:01 AM
#73
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I do see the other side and I think it's a noble effort and idea, but way too much too soon and that it's going to cause a ton of problems, as already explained in more than a few points if you care to acknowledge them.
08-28-12, 06:46 AM
#74
Lexus Champion
Sad that some of these politicians think that their scientists and engineers.
I guess they have an educational degree that qualifies them to do so: Yeah, a bachelor of science degree majoring in utter bulls**t
Just imagine, I thought that a 4-cylinder Diesel engine in a W221 S-class (aka S250 CDI) is just the most dumbfounding thing I've ever heard for in the realm of premium flagship automobiles. Yeah, an unrefined four-banger diesel in a premium flagship automobile.
However, with the way governments around the world are doing, such an absurdity is becoming closer and closer to reality.
I have a hunch, the chance for a V8 engine to be released for the 4th generation Lexus GS is hanging on the balance. Heck, we don't even know for sure if there will even be a 500 hp (minimum) GS-F.
I for one (and many others) hope that it comes out........but there is a risk that it might not.
If that happens, then you can blame excessively unnecessary over-regulation by world governments.........and eco-terrorists like Greenpeace
I guess they have an educational degree that qualifies them to do so: Yeah, a bachelor of science degree majoring in utter bulls**t
Just imagine, I thought that a 4-cylinder Diesel engine in a W221 S-class (aka S250 CDI) is just the most dumbfounding thing I've ever heard for in the realm of premium flagship automobiles. Yeah, an unrefined four-banger diesel in a premium flagship automobile.
However, with the way governments around the world are doing, such an absurdity is becoming closer and closer to reality.
I have a hunch, the chance for a V8 engine to be released for the 4th generation Lexus GS is hanging on the balance. Heck, we don't even know for sure if there will even be a 500 hp (minimum) GS-F.
I for one (and many others) hope that it comes out........but there is a risk that it might not.
If that happens, then you can blame excessively unnecessary over-regulation by world governments.........and eco-terrorists like Greenpeace
08-28-12, 06:54 AM
#75
Boardroom Thug
Excellent Post 
Sad that some of these politicians think that their scientists and engineers.
I guess they have an educational degree that qualifies them to do so: Yeah, a bachelor of science degree majoring in utter bulls**t
Just imagine, I thought that a 4-cylinder Diesel engine in a W221 S-class (aka S250 CDI) is just the most dumbfounding thing I've ever heard for in the realm of premium flagship automobiles. Yeah, an unrefined four-banger diesel in a premium flagship automobile.
However, with the way governments around the world are doing, such an absurdity is becoming closer and closer to reality.
I have a hunch, the chance for a V8 engine to be released for the 4th generation Lexus GS is hanging on the balance. Heck, we don't even know for sure if there will even be a 500 hp (minimum) GS-F.
I for one (and many others) hope that it comes out........but there is a risk that it might not.
If that happens, then you can blame excessively unnecessary over-regulation by world governments.........and eco-terrorists like Greenpeace
I guess they have an educational degree that qualifies them to do so: Yeah, a bachelor of science degree majoring in utter bulls**t
Just imagine, I thought that a 4-cylinder Diesel engine in a W221 S-class (aka S250 CDI) is just the most dumbfounding thing I've ever heard for in the realm of premium flagship automobiles. Yeah, an unrefined four-banger diesel in a premium flagship automobile.
However, with the way governments around the world are doing, such an absurdity is becoming closer and closer to reality.
I have a hunch, the chance for a V8 engine to be released for the 4th generation Lexus GS is hanging on the balance. Heck, we don't even know for sure if there will even be a 500 hp (minimum) GS-F.
I for one (and many others) hope that it comes out........but there is a risk that it might not.
If that happens, then you can blame excessively unnecessary over-regulation by world governments.........and eco-terrorists like Greenpeace